How many 458 Italias with original ecu and exhaust crackles?

I suspect that is the case. In cabin video essentially attenuates high frequency sounds and leaves low frequency sounds in tact since they are more omnidirectional. So I just drove around my neighborhood and used my iPhone to record the sound from inside the car:

https://youtu.be/V0kYeeKmZqY

The car does now has cat-deletes so the burbles/crackles aren't going to sound exactly like in the video you posted. But you can still certainly witness the similarities. While my burbles are understandably louder, I find the sound with the stock cats to be more pleasant. I will be installing race cats soon for that reason.

 

Good point! It would be great if Shiv were able to offer:

Option A: Factory-correct run-on, which is exactly the same as the original tune and run-on

Option B: "Accentuated" run-on, with timing retarded to 10 deg during deceleration, and minimum injector on time increased

 

Haha....

YES: We need the "wife mode," and then we need the "mistress mode."

PS - It would be great if these two additional modes could be added to the Manettino

 

What I am providing is accentuated run-on by keeping the exhaust valves open instead of closed during these conditions. This will simply make the restored burbles louder and less muffled. But it won't change the qualitative sound (i.e., make it sound like gun shots).

Adjusting the tune so that it generates loud bangs is not something that I am keen on doing to customer cars. I'll be happy to do it to my car (temporarily) just to demonstrate it can be done. But it's not what I consider to be prudent and safe. It is one thing to restore and improve on OEM performance, it's another thing to change operating parameters so greatly that a completely different outcome is achieved. I will show customers the mapping changes required and give fair warning but they will need to punch the keys themselves if they want to go down that path. Let's not forget that my primary goal is to restore the OEM burbles that went missing a few years ago. It's a harmless change with no potential downside. What you are describing might not be. Perhaps I'm being a little self-protective here because if a handful of customers come back to me with damaged cats and cracked exhausts, I'll be the guy in the firing line.

 

How many miles on your car? Any track days? And have you removed and inspected your cats recently? 20 years of experience tells me they aren't designed to withstand actual combustion pressures/temps.

 

FYI, the calculated cat temps are derived from an internal combustion model (in the ECU) that takes into account ignition advance and mass fuel injection. There is no actual exhaust gas temp probe in or near the catalysts. The model also assumes normal combustion, not after-burn. The only way to determine the health of your catalysts is to look into both sides and see the color and composition of the honeycomb material. If it is white or shows signs of deformation/melting, it has been over-temped. High quality HJS cats are very durable and less prone to failure but like any other component in your car, they are designed to operate in a certain operating range. All this information is readily available on the internet if you want to get more info. My intention is not to rain on your parade but rather to disclose all potential downsides. I wish you many more years of trouble-free driving.

You may not have touched the ECU, but how can you be certain the previous owner didn't? In your case, you run primarily on race fuel which you say makes the bangs louder. For the rest of us running on pump gas, it would be unreasonable to expect the same results even if we had the same (possibly original) ECU calibration.

I have driven rally cars that run anti-lag systems which is a bit more serious that what we are talking about here. They actually have fuel injectors that squirt fuel directly into the exhaust, just upstream of the turbo. Accordingly, the exhaust manifold and turbos on those cars need to get replaced periodically. Such is the price of racing.

 

In addition to decel inject duration and ignition timing retard, some other parameters to try would be injection timing, spark decel cutout, DBW throttle decel closed position and modulation and cam timing. Remember, burning fuel within the exhaust system (cats or muffler) is not always a good idea. Exhaust valves and cats get very hot and can be damaged. The large "pops" are due to getting just the right air/fuel mixture within the exhaust system to "self ignite" in an explosive manner as the burbles are a slower form (richer) of burning. Pops can literally blow a cat/muffler apart if overdone. As always, moderation is the key.

 

As I posted earlier in the thread, I am also looking to buy a late model 458 and having the ability to make it sound like a real 2010 would be fundamental to the purchase. I sold a 2010 458 a few years ago and it sounded very similar to trofeo458's car, I have video of it somewhere I can try to find.

I agree with both Trofeo458 and Eilig, your car does not have the pops like the 2010's had, they are much more aggressive in terms of pops and burbles than your current tune. I really hope you can figure out how to make it sound like a real 2010, I would be a customer.

 

After hearing both videos I now can confirm that I'm am one of the lucky ones. My 2011 was unmolested and has all the pops and burbles as it left the factory in 2011. So I no longer need to follow this thread Good luck guys!

 

Just to summarized what we have done so far:

I have a 2010 Italia with updated ECU calibration (no burbles). I loaded a complete 2010 calibration and the burbles were restored. No bangs and pops. Just nice burbles during decel as seen on any number of YouTube videos from 2010-2011. I then ported the data that restored the burbles to my updated (no burble) calibration. Burbles returns as expected. Then I adjusted the exhaust bypass valves to stay open during burble conditions. Burbles got louder. But at no point did the engine produce violent combustion in the exhaust (gun shot sounds). If your car made those noises, I would say that it did so reasons other than ECU calibration. This is just based upon my talks with other owners who have/had original ECU calibration and from YouTube videos I've seen. This is also from looking at the actual differences between original and newer calibrations. If anyone else out there has an early model year car with original software, it would be nice to hear what it sounds like so please post a video

Recreating gun shot noises is a very academic procedure once you have control over throttle, fuel and timing tables (as we do). So recreating it is not a challenge. The challenge is getting people to understand how damaging it is to exhaust and emissions hardware. If some cars were making those loud bang noises on original ECU software, it doesn't surprise me that Ferrari issued an update to fix it. Nor does it surprise me that customers were experiencing exhaust bypass valve failures and seeking warranty repair work.

If our tune recreates the loud bangs in any customer car, I will advise them to allow me to dial things down a bit so that it pleasantly burbles (controlled slow burn) and crackles instead.

On a related note, Mike dropped off his beautiful 2013 Spider at the shop today. Getting the full burble ECU treatment, remapped Race/CST throttle tables and modified exhaust bypass valve mapping. We are also removing his Capristo exhaust valve controller which is rendered some redundant now. Will be taking copious amounts of before and after videos showing the difference.

I do appreciate that feedback and passionate response to this thread.
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Glad to hear it! Which video in particular does your car sound like? Any exhaust modifications?

 

Mine sounds like video two. I had to hear a stock, flashed exhaust like that in video one so I knew for sure.
Stock exhaust with the exception of a Forza valve controller.
Loving it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

So just to confirm, your get the burbles, crackles and pops shown in my videos (with my ECU flash) but not the loud machine gun bangs displayed in 458tropheo's video?

Also are your burbles/pops/crackles louder with the Capristo controller keeping the valves full open or with it in bypass mode (OEM valve control)? This last bit is critical.

 

Hey Shiv - Car purchased today!

The excitement continues to build....

 

CONGRATS!! When I purchased and drove home my 458 for the first time, it just hours before my wife and I had to catch a flight to Mexico for a friends wedding. Talk about a long painful trip! All I did the whole time was read the owners manual over and over again. I was not aware of Burble-gate so I had no reason to think my car was anything less than perfect at the time

 

Exactly how my 2011 sounds on decel.

Kind regards,

Nuno.

 

Another good data point! That has been my findings as well. Nice pleasant burbles but no big bangs.

 

Mine sounds much like your videos but not the constant loud bangs as in 458tropheo's. I get an occasional pop but lots of amazing burbling.

And yes, this is with the valves open in full bypass mode. In stock mode, Sport, the valves shut early and eliminate much of the burbling. However in Race mode they stay open longer and more burbles can be heard. I'm going to leave my valves open most of the time as the sound is intoxicating for sure.

 

Awesome. Do you get more or the same burbling with the valves held full open vs with the OEM valve control in Race mode? The reason I ask is because from what I've seen in the ECU mapping, both Sport and Race modes close the valves during decel. But there is a greater delay/hysteresis when in Race mode so you an get a brief moment of burbles before the valves close and kills the burbles. So if I am interpreting the ECU tables correctly, the Capristo holding the valves open (full time) should burble more often than with OEM control in Race mode. Please let me know if I'm wrong

And yes, I also get the occasion bang front time to time. I think that is normal. For me, it's usually on the track or when I'm driving it very hard (i.e., when the exhaust is very hot). But other than that, it's just glorious burbles.

Yesterday, I flashed back to the factory updated software (what my car came with when i purchased it last year). It really sucked. With no decel burbles, the exhaust note is pretty bland.