Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

1. Surely a 650S is slightly faster than a 12C in the same conditions and an LT is a lot faster than that.
2. Surely there's a lot of data for LT vs 650S and 12C that can also be used.

And I have.

1. Factory claim of sub-7 minutes.
2. Factory claim of average speed >111mph, which corresponds to 6:55.
3. Leak of 6:47 on Corsas.
4. Another car recording 6:59 that the P1 p1sses on all day every day every track, by way more than the 1.4s/minute claimed.

And somehow you think this is a weak case.

And what did the GT2 claim? Actually no, it ran 7:32 with Auto Bild on the longer 20.8km full circuit, so ~7:27 for 20.6km lap. How much does the P1 stomp the GT2 by with Chris Goodwin driving?
Kyalami (new) lap times - FastestLaps.com

Oh 10 seconds on a 1:43 lap. 7:27 vs 1:53 laps. (447s/113s)*10s = 40s. 447s - 40s = 6:47. Wow, what a strange coincidence. And that's not even against a factory Nordschleife GT2 lap, it's against a s0dding magazine lap in a GT2.

LT vs GT2.
Porsche 911 GT2 vs McLaren 675LT - FastestLaps.com

911 GT2 675LT
Vairano Handling Course 1:15.53 1:10.10
Motortrend Figure-8 0:22.90 0:22.40
Willow Springs 1:33.57 1:24.29
Hockenheim Short 1:09.70 1:07.20
Buttonwillow Configuration 13 1:59.70 1:52.00
Fuji Speedway (post 2005) 1:54.25 1:46.00
Top Gear Track 1:19.50 1:13.70

Do you get the picture yet? Every single scrap of evidence suggests that 6:47 is possible no matter what car you compare it to. Even Porsche has said they could have gone 10s faster, yet when the P1 lap time comes around, you forget they even said that.

 

Like, hello Pagani, your 1350kg (claimed) car ran slicks in the TG test, and the 675LT still beat it by a second using road legal 'bicycle tyres' 10mm narrower than the P1's, so stuff you and your opinion.

PS: I actually like Paganis, but he deserves that response for those comments.

 

Why are we on about the 997GT2? this was not a very fast car over a lap or in a line, My LP700 used to own this a V-MAX...

 

I couldn't care less for magazine comparisons in the RB001 or R50. Given the stated performance of these cars, there's no way your typical magazine tester is good enough to get anywhere near the limits. It reminds me of the time Roger Green of Evo drove an F2 car around Bedford. >4s slower than an F2 pro driver Jolyon Palmer. So any magazine times would be like give or take 4...5...6s. Meaningless.

 

No, this is really simple, good 'ring times take effort, Porsche didn't try that hard with the 918, and they have said themselves that 10s faster is possible. Lamborghini put in a lot of effort with the SV and Performante and managed 6:59 and 6:52 respectively, so given that McLaren made similar efforts, 6:47 on Corsas would be possible.

I can't see why people struggle with the idea of this, with many responding as if the leaked time was 5:47 and not 6:47 IMO.

 

I was logged out due to clearing the history of my browser to save space on my phone.So I accidently saw your comment.

Anyway you are wrong on that GT3 lap time.
1.In 24hr layout there is no braking in the last corner before finish line in nordschleife.
2.It skips a very slow part of the ring.

For above reason you can't speculate accurate ring time with 24hr layout.So no GT3 car never ran under sub 6:30 for me.Unless you have a video of lapping it at only north ring your argument is invalid.Even with that it could only do 6:28 from inaccurate YouTube timer you like.

But P1 LMs downforce figure wasn't verified by dyno.

Using cut slicks or not is invalid because Ron Dennis claimed it cut 10s from leaderboard at that time which was of Huayras.At the time Trofeos weren't available for P1.And I don't think it can beat Zonda R or GT1 car lapping in damp condition and come within 10s of formula 1 car.

 

You do know that this 6.47, was not a leaked time the leaked time was 6.3? for some Asia customers. The 6.47 was just a time that was floated on ML and it stuck.

Bottom line is Mac went to the ring with Film Crew, a Chopper, EVO, the simulator said a fast time was on the cards. But for what ever reason Mac decided not to release the time that they did on the day.

 

Oi, I agree with you on this......Btw Trofeo R are not they far from a Cut Slick.....with regard to compound.....

 

It's basically an extension of lafars' argument. Lafars is prepared to believe the GT2 RS and LFA 'ring times with no proof based on a factory claims because other lap times suggest it's possible. I'm simply pointing out that the same is true for the P1 (and LT).

E.g.
LFA (7:20 claim)
LT (2up) was 9s faster at Fuji (440s - [9*440s/115s] = 6:46)
LT 4s faster at HHR (440s - [4*440s/71s] = 6:55)
P1 5s faster at Autocar Dry Handling (440s - [5*440s/71s] = 6:49)

GT2 RS (7:18 claim)
LT (2up) was 5s faster at Fuji (438s - [9*438s/111s] = 6:58)
LT 5s faster on Nurburgring GP (3.7km) so (438s - [5*438s/99s] = 6:56)

GT2 (7:27 magazine lap)
LT (2up) was 9s faster at Fuji (447s - [9*447s/115s] = 6:55)
P1 was 10s faster at Kyalami (447s - [10*447s/113s] = 6:47)

SV (6:59)
LT 1.3s faster at Sachsenring (419s - [1.3*419s/92s] = 6:53)
LT 1.2s faster at Willow Springs (419s - [1.2*419s/85s] = 6:53)
LT 1.74s faster at Vairano (419s - [1.74*419s/72s] = 6:49)
LT 3s faster at Bugatti Le Mans (in damp) (419s - [3*419s/107s] = 6:47)

All these calculations give less than 7 minutes (6:46-6:58) for even the LT. Coincidence?

 

Ah, got ya, same as normal then. Make up some BS in order to support a point, then after a couple of posts hope that they forget about the BS, ie the point then becomes Fact.....Lol

LP700 being Quicker in line than GT2RS...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It4BIqtrM64

 

Neither are the Cup 2s on the Z06 and AMG GTR, and the Kumhos on the ACR may be even better than slicks.

Pagani could have used Trofeo Rs, but they went with slicks with a Corsa tread pattern instead.

 

Not really, I raised the point as to why people are prepared to believe the GT2 RS and LFA 'ring times without a video and the subsequent debate led to this.

I don't doubt the LP700 is faster on straights.

 

Have a look at the video above 2mins in

 

Trofeos not out when they put up the TG time......

 

Actually, in regards to the Z06 vsSV comments, the Z06 usually seems to run super cup2's vs the Corsas the SV is seen with. Even then, the difference is usually a few tenths, to a second a one of the tracks. Then theres the one with the ACR vs the SV at willow springs. The ACR was driven Chryslers test driver and probably with the perfect setup, and set a 1:24, while the SV on corsas driven by randy set a 1:25. With trofeos, Lambo's best driver, and a perfect setup, that could come down by a few seconds, probably 2-3.

I agree with regards to the LT on trofeos. It would be interesting from simply an informative view point what it would do on corsas.

Few GT3's do run under 6:30. Most however, do not. So i considers those to be outliers.

Pagani's "cut-slicks", they claim are trofeos that they -- much like other companies dont recommend you use in the rain. So I dont see how its unfair, if those truly are the same trofeos that are available for sale, then I see nothing wrong. If everyone is caught up in a tizzy because on their statement, then thats something else.

Generally, the P1 is around .5secs near the 918, so a 6:55 is probably what it could, but more than that, it'll need trofeos.

Few GT3's do run under 6:30. Most however, do not. So i considers those to be outliers. Not sure if those are on the same track layout that you're talking about, but they have been there to that time.

 

If you put a 650 and LT both on Trofeos same driver same day same track, It would be a lot closer than what you think. Notwithstanding that the LT is far more of an event than the 650 to drive.

I honestly don't think the P1 could hook up a Sub 7 min ring time. Don't think the Batts could last that long, also don't see how it could run its lower race mode ride height at the ring. Best time I have seen is the 7.04.

Just my view......

 

I was talking about time he was speculating about 20.832km layout.If you have timed them lapping in nordschleife only then I can agree with you.But if it is just a speculation based on 25.378km layout I disagree because of the reasons stated in my previous post.Not to mention it is missing at least 232m length by sport auto configuration speculation.Adding 5s for that we get 6:33 lap time.

 

Performante 6:52 lap
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ULSUcERlQQ

 

They've been out since early 2012, Huayra lap was in 2013.

In their first cover-up lie they said the lap was done on Trofeo Rs too.

 

Hey, look, you just shoot yoruself in the foot again Mr. Liar.

A Zonda R needed cheater slicks to do 6:47, that's why a P1 cannot possibly do a 6:47. Simple as that isn't it?

Don't you just love real world logic, instead of your dreamed up ones?

 

let me explain why the LFA claimed time can be considered legit

the difference in time between the standard and the nurburgring edition is REFLECTED in the supertest, keep in mind that sauma only has 1 warm-up lap and 1 hot lap, he cannot match manufacturer laptime/claim with such a short timespan

however the 4 second difference in the supertest is just how far he could push them within the limited time he has with the car, if given enough time we could easily assume he could reach the claimed laptime and 7:14. the changes from the standard LFA is not that big and it certianly doesn't have the most aggresive aero so an 8 second time difference is reasonable

and now that Lamborghini has published their 6:52 lap then Mclaren has even less of a reason to keep hiding the laptime

BONUS: there was a prototype LFA produced after the NE had set the laptime and started production, the LFA AD-X, rumoured to have 600hp and seems to have a bigger front splitter. very little is known about it but i would guess it has the ability to break the 7:12 barrier of the ACR
Lexus LFA Special Edition AD-X spied - Autoblog

unlike you however i'm not gonna try to pull number out of nowhere to say that the AD-X is faster than the ACR simply because we lack data

 

Are you talking race laps or not?

In qualifying a 12C GT3 posted the equivalent 6:27, maybe 6:26 without the blocking Audi. On Spa the 2014 12C GT3 was about 2s slower than the 2016 650S GT3 in terms of best race lap.

http://www.gtopen.net/contenuti/files/2016%20Season/2%20-SPA/opencarrera1.pdf
Official Site of Blancpain GT Series

This has been gone over in great depth, they were not Trofeos, they had a Corsa System tread pattern and slick tyre alignment dots.
Did The Pagani Huayra Cheat To Set Its Record Lap Time On Top Gear? (UPDATED: Pagani Responds)

The rest of its times also mark the time out as a cheat, e.g. slower than a 991 GT3 on Blyton. Slower than 458 and 12C on Anglesey.

Yes but Porsche themselves said 10-15s faster was possible with more effort. Even Boyko has said that. I.e. 6:47 is possible for the 918 too, making 6:47 for a P1 on Corsas after lots of attempts easily possible.

 

Hey Sport. Sounds and looks like a slick tire. Did Lambo say what they were running?

 

An LT beat a Huayra on cheater slicks and the game has moved on since the Zonda R, no idea how much effort went into that lap either, after all an SR8 LM on street tyres ran 6:48.

Also a rumour that an FXX K prototype ran 6:35 on street tyres.

 

So you're using a super test time which is typically anything from 12-20s off factory claims. Yet somehow when I use time deltas from every track under the sun to make the same point, that isn't just as good. Can you show me one track where a P1 or LT has been slower than an SV? Porsche said the 918 could go 10-15s faster with more effort, so can you show me a track where the P1 is 2s/minute slower than the 918 even on Corsas? I think the very most it's ever been down is about 0.6-0.7s/minute.

Actually LFA to LFA NRE is quite a big leap, 100kg less weight, more power, more downforce.

So you don't think a P1 is at least faster than an SV?

Well the AD-X doesn't actually exist.