360Stradale 6-speed manual conversion | Page 33 | FerrariChat

360Stradale 6-speed manual conversion

Discussion in '360/430' started by alberto, Jul 11, 2007.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 28, 2003
    9,992
    Rocky Mountains
    Full Name:
    Bastuna
    #801 sherpa23, Feb 21, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here's a a public service announcement. I got an entire CS rear hatch. I will be painting it and putting it on soon. If someone wants my doctored pseudo CS hatch please let me know I'll be happy to see it out to proper use. But I don't think I can ship it. Someone would have to pick it up.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    mind sharing how did you doctor it?

    I was thinking of doctoring mine, by welding something on the modena hatch

     
  3. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 28, 2003
    9,992
    Rocky Mountains
    Full Name:
    Bastuna
    I would love to tell you but I didn't do it. I have a restoration shop that does work for me. They're known for rebuilding some super rare competition Porsche 911s and know about all the different materials. They did a great job with this and it's virtually indistinguishable from a CS lid. But I wanted a real one but they're really damn hard to find so I used the other one as a sub until I could get my hands on one. Now it's time for it to go to someone else.
     
  4. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    maybe some basics,

    is the "dome" that differentiate CS from modena made of metal or composite material?
    are glues used?

    is the 3rd brake light slit cut or you used the original slit?


     
  5. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 28, 2003
    9,992
    Rocky Mountains
    Full Name:
    Bastuna
    I have no idea about most of that. What I do know is that they said I had better want it because there is no way to undo it. It is permanent. I also know that the duck tail is a composite and not metal. I don't know what they used but I know they said they want to do it again in Kevlar.

    These guys do complete Porsche race car fenders and such out of carbon, Kevlar, and different composites.
     
  6. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    4,241
    Gibraltar
    Full Name:
    360trev
    #806 360trev, Mar 1, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    FINALLY---> THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE ;)

    OK... So first lets discuss Kerb vs Dry weight so people can understand a bit of the math around this.... No bull****, just real world figures...

    Engine Fluids
    Engine Oil 11.5kg
    Engine Coolant 18.4kg
    Gearbox & Differential 3.5kg
    F1 Transmission Oil 0.0kg (or 1kg for an F1 equipped car)
    Steering Box 0.2kg
    Hydraulic Steering Oil 1.8kg
    Aircon Gas 1.0kg
    Brake Fluid 1.5kg
    Window Washer 3.5kg

    Fuel Weight
    So I filled/brimmed the fuel tank to full which is 90 liters. Since petrol weights 0.75kg per liter that means 71.3kgs added. You could argue half a tank would work too, in that case it would be about 35kg's.

    Petrol in tank 71.3kg
    Total 113.6kg (ALL fluids)

    Note: *All these figures come from the workshop manuals are are known to be accurate.

    My KERB weight on the Intercomp scales came out as;
    Kerb (360trev car): 1262.5kg KERB WEIGHT

    If I calculate a DRY weight, it comes out as ; 1262.5-113.6 = 1148.9 Kg (2,534 pounds) DRY weight

    That's with a full tank of fuel, all fluids, aircon, glass electric windows and central locking. I haven't fitted my carbon doors yet or front carbon lid plus stuff like Scuderia metal floor mats are in use as well as full standard s/steel CS exhaust with valves (not my ultralight, ultra loud titanium one). So I could shed quite a few more kg's if I put my carbon doors on and used lexan sides...

    Not bad at all considering I could still reduce quite a bit of weight and I'm yet to remake my side skirts, f+r bumpers in cf either...
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    Bas likes this.
  7. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    4,241
    Gibraltar
    Full Name:
    360trev
    #807 360trev, Mar 1, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
  8. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 3, 2007
    16,409
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Nostradamus
    VERY impressive. Excellent work
     
  9. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

    Feb 5, 2014
    2,624
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    That's superb, Trev, especially with the fibre body parts.

    I'd be very happy with that (in your case, not mine - my Spider won't get near).
     
  10. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    4,241
    Gibraltar
    Full Name:
    360trev
    Thanks guys, I'm ecstatic!!!! Finally proof that all that hard work has paid off on the scales ;)
     
  11. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    4,241
    Gibraltar
    Full Name:
    360trev
    Another comparison...

    360 Challenge race car...

    Kerb Weight : 1,250kg (2755 lbs)
    Dry Weight : 1,169kg (2577 lbs)

    :)

    The race car kerb to dry is slightly different since the racing cars don't have aircon (so no aircon gas, washer fluids, etc, etc.).

    So I'm only a nat's wisker away from the weight of a Challenge car but with much beefier 430 Challenge 398mm CCM braking...
     
  12. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 28, 2003
    9,992
    Rocky Mountains
    Full Name:
    Bastuna
    This is super, Trev. Great work!
     
  13. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    4,241
    Gibraltar
    Full Name:
    360trev
    Thanks. Really pleased with the result!!!

    I'll put a spreadsheet together soon on all of this but suffice to say based on the sample of 3 Challenge Stradale's real world KERB weights (2 US and 1 European) I'm anywhere from 103kgs up to 160kgs lighter...

    Key: 2.2046 lbs [pounds] = 1kg [kilogram]

    LF - Left Front
    RF - Right Front
    LR - Left Rear
    RR - Right Rear

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Bill S Thread
    Car: Challenge Stradale #1
    USA - No Radio, No extinguisher, Electric Glass Windows

    LF 276.24kg 312.07kg RF
    LR 429.55kg 390.09kg RR
    Total: 1407.96kg [3,104 lbs]

    Vs

    360trev Thread
    Car: 360 Special Project

    LF 250.0kg (-26.25kg) 279.50kg RF (-32.57kg)
    LR 382.0kg (-47.55kg) 351.00kg RR (-39.09kg)
    Total: 1262.50kg [2,783 lbs] (-145.46kg lighter [321 lbs])
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Bill S Thread
    Car: Challenge Stradale #2
    USA - Specs unknown


    LF 256.73kg 338.83kg RF
    LR 464.03kg 362.42kg RR
    Total: 1422.03kg [3,135 lbs]

    Vs

    360trev Thread
    Car: 360 Special Project

    LF 250.0kg (- 6.73kg) ] 279.50kg RF (-59.33kg)
    LR 382.0kg (-82.03kg) 351.00kg RR (-11.42kg)
    Total: 1262.50kg [2,783 lbs] (-159.51kg lighter [352 lbs])
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Bill S Thread
    Car: Challenge Stradale #3
    European - Factory rollbar, unknown other options, unknown
    level of fuel.

    Total: 1365.00kg [3009 lbs]

    Vs

    360trev Thread
    Car: 360 Special Project

    Total: 1262.50kg [2,783 lbs] (-102.50kg lighter [226 lbs])
    ---------------------------------------------------------
     
  14. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    #814 24000rpm, Mar 1, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    so today I take off my door card and see what is making vibration around 1500rpm.
    And I see this falling off, arrowed.
    Does someone has a picture to show me how was this originally attached to the door card?
    The parts diagram said there are 3 of them, but I only found 2 and those two are not the same size.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  15. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    4,241
    Gibraltar
    Full Name:
    360trev
    That's a weird picture... The CS cf door panels I had where single piece item, in this picture it looks like its made in 2 pieces? Did you split it?
     
  16. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    pictured is the RH side. THe LH side is one piece.
    I am assuming a "not for GD" car.
    edit: On a second thought, I am not even sure the LH is one piece of not
    THe RH is indeed 2 pieces glued together. Obviously my glue was all dry and not working.
    LH side, I am not sure since I never took it off

     
  17. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    #817 24000rpm, Mar 1, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    my challenge car was kerb weighted 1190.0 kg. Please note that in the picture, since the car is not on a measured flat surface, only the total weight is valid by adding all 4 corners together

    What was taken off:
    THe lower dash
    The 2 covers behind the seats
    passenger seat.
    the whole blower

    Added:
    air jacks
    front lip
    spoiler

    What was replaced
    carbon fibier GT style front bumper.
    carbon fiber rear bumper, side skirts (maybe they are carbon fiber from factory? not sure)
    Full custom-made titanium exhaust, no cat.
    Full lexan windows all around, including windshield and hatch
    Moton shocks
    front rims was replaced with rear rims ( so front and rear has the same width, previous owner like this setup, which I found a little weird)
    bigger size brake rotors and calipers, brembo.
    custom-made radiators(rid of the plastics)
    CS TCU

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  18. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    4,241
    Gibraltar
    Full Name:
    360trev
    Great info! Thanks for posting

    Q. How much fuel was in the tank for the kerb weight?

    My car was 1262.5kg with full tank of fuel (71.3kgs). If I deduct that I get to 1191.2kgs but ofcourse that isn't a real kerb weight is it as the car cannot drive anywhere!!! However different versions of kerb exist that even include an arbitary driver and passenger weights!
     
  19. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    about 15 liters IIRC. in the dash screen you can read the fuel liters on a challenge car

    This 1190 kg is without me as a driver.

     
  20. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    4,241
    Gibraltar
    Full Name:
    360trev
    Interesting, I'm curious now as to what was done... I once saw a silly impressive 360 Challenge blatting around the track beating all the 430 Challenges (everything on the track actually). I asked him what was his secret... He told me it had a kerb weight of just a bit over 1000kg (!!!!!)... They went super extreme, drilling holes into all kinds of things and removing lots of crap, they replaced almost all the non supporting bolts with cable ties and the rest with titanium nuts/bolts... Crazy silly but just goes to show how low you COULD go....

    Looking at your figures I am even more amazed that I've managed to run my car weight so close to your full on 360 Challenge non road legal racing car with a road legal and road setup car with full aircon, central locking, electric glass windows and full interior. OK no roll cage (which must weight a LOT) but still....

    -T
     
  21. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    #821 24000rpm, Mar 1, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
    what was done... ha, ask cwwhk, he's the original owner.
    from what have experienced on track for both the CS and the challenge car, the suspension serious make a huge, i mean huge difference. Must be the moton shocks and harder springs.

    Another huge difference is the quicker steering on the challenge car.
    3rd difference is accelarated acceleration by the differential, I guess. because the top speed of the car is roughly around 260km/hour limited by the rev limiter, as tested on the Shanghai F1 circuit main straight.

    Imagine if my challenge car was fitted with carbon disks.....
    Imagine again if some day I fit it with a sequential box....

    for me as a track novice, i have to say the CS is easier to drive and the challenge is less predicable. snap oversteer is so easy on the challenge, but that's maybe because the Michilin slicks are not up to temperature yet and the wider front tyres. ( um.... tires)

    for the 1 ton challenge car, I think I can still reduce this 1190kg, by removing here and there a bit without drilling holes. up to another 30kg max, just a guestimate.

     
  22. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    4,241
    Gibraltar
    Full Name:
    360trev
    I absolutely love driving a sequential box on the track, works so well and (to me) more involving than flappy paddles. Also love the noise they make!

    Ofcourse tires play a massive part of it but don't discount how much the ride height and geo setup differences make here as well as roll bar rates.

    What size rollbars are you running front and rear? There are 3 different sizes which can be swapped on the Challenge cars and they make quite a noticeable difference to the way the cars handle...

    Very interesting on the gearbox. I assume you mean the final drive and gear ratio's where tweaked so you get faster acceleration?
     
  23. mwstewart

    mwstewart F1 Rookie

    Feb 5, 2014
    2,624
    England
    Full Name:
    Mark
    5th, 6th, and final drive on the Challenge is lower IIRC. The GT3s ran different gear sets again.
     
  24. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    i'll have to take a picture tormorow, as I don't know what size roll bar it is. LOL
    OH yes, I think the final drive was modified as opposed to the gear sets.

    But I never know until I open up the gearbox, which I never did until this day.

     
  25. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    #825 24000rpm, Mar 3, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    this is the front roll bar. I have no idea what it is, but it certainly is much more robust than modena ones

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     

Share This Page