Odometer Rollback Scandal

Correct. An entirely brand new car was made at the factory appropriating this Serial No. In fact, as recently as just two years ago, it was still on a New Jersey Title with the owner listed as being Ferrari North America. After it burnt to the ground in Canada, perhaps FNA agreed to buy it back from the insurance company because of some liability consideration if the fire was indeed caused by some parts defect?

The one saving grace is this example is, by a considerable amount, the very last Enzo to have been produced by Ferrari (and still is essentially in 100% brand new condition), even if it has a recycled VIN.

It also comes with a fresh Red Classiche notebook.

 

Certified to be, "as it left the factory." For the second time, I guess. LoL!

And, it's conduct such as this that completely undermines SpA's Classiche program.

Honestly, if SpA re-built the car and just pop-riveted the old VIN plate on, it's still a new, factory-built car, right? There ought to be some truth in advertising, though. It's bad enough when used car dealers are unscrupulous, but when manufacturers (and their regional operations) aren't truthful, who can be trusted?

Remember a few years back when BMW was successfully sued for selling re-painted cars (damaged in transit, presumably) as new?

Integrity matters. I'm sure some people wouldn't care and would be fine with this Enzo's history. As long as it was openly and truthfully disclosed. Problem is, a truthful disclosure would likely knock 20%, 30% or more off the asking and sales price. Shenanigans, once exposed to the light of day, will be harshly judged.

CW

 

The current asking price in the link I posted is 25% less than it was originally and, all things considered (& disclosed ), getting pretty close to FMV for a car of this, um, pedigree.

Enzos with unblemished history and even higher mileage have sold for more than the "new" car is now listed at, so there's clearly a consideration for the prior incident, even if the car is essentially all-new.

I had only posted this car to address a very specific question regarding Ferrari's apparent take on what happens to the odometer on a total car (how convenient). However, I feel this is veering away from the intent of the OP and not entirely relevant to the situation with Mr. Root et al.

 

In the UK that car would be illegal, as in order to retain the ID of an existing vehicle a certain number of components from the original have to be transferred over into a brand new chassis, via a points system. Clearly nothing was salvaged after the fire.

I imagine also in any country not making buyers aware that the car had done more than the odometer stated 141 miles is also illegal.

I simply cannot see why Ferrari would do such, sure rebuild a damaged car and even use a new chassis but nothing in that current example relates to the original, even the chassis plate would have needed to be new!

Then to award it a red book, that really takes the biscuit.....

 

Good to know about the asking price. So, it would seem to be a car with a story, priced appropriately. Glad to hear that it's not a total fraud on the part of the selling party! But, what's the Red book say? Does it disclose that the car was re-built from a VIN plate and tire caps? It's not a total secret, because the CarFax shows a total and marred title. So, caveat emptor: do your diligence. Would diligence catch a rolled-back odometer? Maybe. But, maybe not.

Not intending to move the conversation away from the issue of rolling-back an odometer, either, but this is where the discussion has gone. These threads ought to develop organically, and if we're talking about conduct unbecoming from SpA, FNA or a dealer, their actions are worthy of some exploration in this regard.

Happy to let it drift back to odometer roll-backs, though.

CW

 

Agreed that it's best to let the discussion develop organically. I feel somewhat responsible for this tangent and didn't want it to be considered a derail, but there are obvious threads of similarity that may speak to the bigger picture of how Ferrari views odometer readings...

 

If true, this is ludicrous and the exemplification of greed....and another reason to buy an older generation Ferrari.

Ferrari Accused Of Allowing Illegal Odometer Rollbacks In New Lawsuit

 

Masters of marketing that they are, Ferrari even outdid themselves with the Classiche program. Ten years ago, buyers about to receive their previously-ordered new cars were dragooned into buying Classiche for their older ones with a threat against future purchases. Dealers were forced to produce X-number of Classiche certifications or their CSI money was threatened (a constant tactic with FNA) and they managed to talk auction houses into requiring it on Ferraris offered for sale. Today, it's tough to sell a vintage Ferrari without a red book, even though everyone knows the program is flawed. In concept, yes, it's a valuable tool, but they have dirtied Classiche with so many instances of 'certifying' originality in cars that can be easily proven otherwise--certifying covered headlights on a car old pictures show with open lights, for example. "Your car's original engine has been powering a speedboat in Jamaica since 1970? No problem, we'll just make you a new one, stamped with the correct number." I do love the Italians, but they never get far away from their old con games.

 

It had about 1300 miles when auctioned off for Tsunami relief.

http://www.finecars.cc/en/detail/car/3887/index.html

Ferrari Enzo Sells for $1.15 Million at Charity Auction

$1 Million Ferrari Enzo Donated To Charity

 

Already addressed:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/ferrari-discussion-not-model-specific/546303-odometer-rollback-scandal.html

 

Proof positive that even the chassis plate is not the same!

That car is so wrong on every level, and a mockery of the Ferrari Classiche system

The location of the pop rivet holes also prove its not the same chassis either.
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and evidence in relation to the Enzo shows on the above thread that older Ferraris are no safer to buy either even with the official Ferrari stamp of approval that is Classiche!

 

Additionally, both the orientation of the characters (and their fonts) on the 17-digit VIN printed on the vertical Bar Code Sticker, which is just to the left of the Chassis Plate, differ in the Before and After photos.

I also think some of the emissions labels are missing in the current car's engine compartment.

 

To be fair, I don't think anyone is claiming the chassis of 134956 is original and in my opinion, there's nothing "wrong on every level" about the car; it is, after all an entirely newly constructed car and there are bound to be some differences with the 'first' 134956, even if only due to changes in processes at the factory.

However, I would be curious to hear and explanation of the production date.

 

Precisely

Even more precise

Wait a second - you mean Ferrari isn't the root of all evil? Thank God you clarified that, because if I listened to the people on this board (and outside of it) one would have no choice but to believe that Ferrari is the anti-Christ.

Good point. Which, ironically, actually means that when it comes to honest people we do not need locks

They never have, and unfortunately (for them) they never will.

 

repost

 

The current car is a nice example of an Enzo, but it is not 134956 as the whole of that car died in the fire.

The current one should have the next sequential VIN number after the last Enzo was produced by the factory.

I don't see any disclosure in the advert about what happened to the original or that it had covered at least 1300 miles?

 

And that would head off the biggest questions from potential buyers. Be up front, 'its a new car straight from the factory but they had to use the vin plate from a totaled Enzo. Everything is documented in the Classiche book'.


As for the the roll back...there was nothing left to roll back. In this case, I would agree to sell the now car with the actual mile that are on the chassis, not on the tin VIN plate.

 

So the Classiche red book clearly states the Enzo VIN it represents is not the car that left Ferrari in 2003 but another example which actually left them much later, but that one still shows a date of manufacture as 2003 and by the way the later car contains nothing that was in the car from 2003? does it then go on to say the 2003 car had done over 1300 miles but the later one had never turned a wheel when that left Ferrari?

Ok that sounds fair enough! anyway here's my cheque for 2 mill now that has been cleared up.......Oh I am also in the market for London Bridge and a building plot on the moon please.

In that case all JIM G has to do is send his 0846 to Ferrari, they put it in the crusher, build him a brand new one, issue the new one with a Red Book and a new VIN and hey presto he finally owns an undisputed original P4 with a factory sanctioned 0846 number?

As an aside, is the current version of 134956 the last known Enzo to come out of Maranello? or have anymore totalled ones had the same treatment after it? maybe the famous one crashed by the Swede in Cali that ended up being black I think and recently auctioned?

 

Title + Classiche Red Book for Enzo #134956
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Odometer Reading as of early-2015, plus ECU reading for the gears. Perfect numbers for a brand new car (i.e. typically these numbers will total around 10-20% less than the actual mileage).
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Was it ever/Is it still, listed as a total loss on the US carfax?

 

Yes, currently listed as a "Branded Title: Junk" and "Total Loss" on the Carfax.

Edit - The "Carfox" also warns that the junk title didn't get transferred when the new title was issued in NJ in 2014 LOL

FWIW (very little), the last mileage recorded prior to the rebuild was nearly 2,200 miles.

 

Please post the entire CARFAX.

 

Interesting how the Scheda technica certificazione calls out SA.MO.CAR. S.p.A. of Rome, Italy as being the original selling Concessionaire-Importer/Dealer.

I know sometimes it's possible to order a USA-spec car in Taiwan, and that the Dubai/U.A.E. Importer used to order/spec their cars out to be USA-versions, but I wasn't aware this was possible in Europe.

I thought #134956 was first sold new by one of the Chicago Ferrari dealers, but I could be completely wrong.