F cars with cam belts

In this case, no, not really.

 

Another day, another cambelt thread. Some things never change. Just like me trying to explain to a bunch of 360 guys how 30 series tires will make their wheelwells look empty and lower their ride height as well. They all want to lower them more to fill the wheelwells. Cross feet to save bullets.

 

Shorter tires will provide a gearing advantage, which may very well be an overall win, depending on ones goals.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with this thread. I've read dozens of belt threads over the years and still find them interesting. No one is being forced to read them...

 

Another reason to buy a lamborghini, the only topics we beat to death are how much cologne to wear and the size/length of our gold chains.

 

Well, so far I have data rolling in. Like ZERO data point on belt change intervals have been submitted. I think this shows the real interest in seeing what owners actually do with regard to frequency of belt changes. Either that, or nobody here other then me and Dave Rocks actually owns a Ferrari. Or perhaps people are to embarrassed to say they are running 6 or 7 or more year old belts.

By the way, did you ever wonder why it took Ferrari 30 years to figure out that all Ferrari V8s need belt changes every 3 years? It is truly unbelievable the BS Ferrari put out to get people to bring their cars in for service. Interesting that that service bulletin came out in 2004, when Ferrari changed its V8 to chain drive cams.

 

It stretches to Alfa Romeo too. Every three years for them.
I can buy a new Ford Focus and it's every 100k or 10 years whichever comes first. Might be diesel only though, not sure.

 

But its an approach which works. Paying extortionate service costs is seen as a badge of honour of Ferrari ownership. Why did Ferrari stick with rubber square-tooth belts for 10 years after other manufacturers dropped them for longer-lasting types?

This is why I find it interesting (but nobody else probably does) that Lotus, a company run by engineers (at least until the Bahar era), does the opposite, ie dumped rubber belts as soon as alternatives were available and did a test to prove how long the new belts last, with published results.

But then again, look at the financial performance of Ferrari vs Lotus !

 

7yrs (308QV), was at 4 yrs when I purchased the car. Put 8k miles on it over 3 yrs before changing belts and tensioner brgs. Belts looked brand new!

What I find interesting is the number of times you read on threads about errors in the Ferrari Workshop Manual, often involving torque values. So Ferrari can't get simple things like torque specs correct but apparently when it comes to belt longevity any questioning is blasphemy.

 

Perhaps it was recognition of the errors, and the challenge of sorting them all out, that made them think about shortening belt intervals!!!

John, as per my earlier posts, I used 2 year intervals, with tensioners on inspection. Usually coincided with other work. The service history (20yrs) regarding timing was latterly engine in car changed belts only, as the state of tensioners etc was poor and 'original' looking when I picked the car up.

One 'fear' of moving to a modded 348 engine is that long serpentine belt... but I will wait out for your 'data' collection before I panic too much.




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Is there any way to test the belts? Take a new belt and stretch it to destruction. Take used belts, old belts, etc., and run the same test. I would think this would be one way to get empirical data about their reliability.

 

That reliability data would be for the belt material itself, and, unfortunately, not the end-use application (e.g. each Ferrari model). I'd venture to say that the belt manufacturer has completed those durability tests in their labs.

 

That depends. A belt manufacturer would conduct generic tests based on ASTM or other industry standards (if such exist). Artificially inducing wear, or somehow imposing accelerated wear, would be generic in nature as you state. What if every Ferrari authorized service center kept and tested every belt that they replaced, noting model, time in-service (yrs and miles), and location. Did Ferrari capture this type of data?

 

Maybe when the average driver does 12,000mi/year and the belt service is at 15,000miles the age is not an issue. Ferrari sold you a car not garage art. Why should Ferrari have to come up with a "lack of use" maintenance schedule?

 

As I mentioned earlier, nobody else cares what you do with your cambelts.

 

Would have been awesome if they did. But I doubt it.

 

And yet everyone still offers their 'expert' opinion.

 

Jim- When somebody asks, I will always post the factory bulletins. After that, up to the owner.

 

For the 200th time.

Do you think it will sink in this time? These threads are funny. 90% of the opinions expressed reflect a complete lack of understanding of anything related to the topic.

 

Brian- No, not really, but you can always be hopeful. Conspiracy theories are much more fun, I guess, especially nowadays. But then it only takes me 5 seconds to post the bulletins. Most folks had not figured out the 52,500 mile change interval, though, so sometimes explaining that enlightens them.

Remember, we still have folks searching for 50 year old lubricants, too.

 

lol. Agree, posting a 1 pg factory bulletin when someone is asking for statistical data does reflect a complete lack of understanding.

 

Does anyone seriously believe any car manufacturer has done any statistical data collection on anything related to the cars themselves outside of warranty costs per unit?

People have them confused with some other industry.

 

Yes I do. And precisely for what you say, warranty and other liability. Do you seriously think they just pull the recommended service intervals out of their hat, Not a chance. They look at the failure statistics over time and then choose a sweet spot that will limit their liability. But some is pure BS. Remember when manufactures recommend changing antifreeze every 2 years? Then when they started including scheduled maintenance during the warranty period on new car antifreeze all of a sudden became "life time". Service intervals are designed to minimize liability and maximize profits.

https://www-esv.nhtsa.dot.gov/Proceedings/23/files/23ESV-000027.PDF

http://www.abcm.org.br/anais/cobem/2007/pdf/COBEM2007-0140.pdf

http://www.ubiquiti.com/ubiquiti-cd-visible/ContiCorp_Ubq_Paper_WCM09.pdf

 

John- If you have a wet liner engine (read: Ferrari) that needs nitrites or an organic substitute, the nitrites in G05 anti-freezes only last about 2 years. So for us, unless you are using an ELC coolant (some of which also have nitrites) with an organic substitute for the nitrites, it should be two years.

Jim- Posting a 1 page document is all the statistics you are going to get out of Ferrari. Hope you understand that.

 

I don't think so. Silicate phosphate green antifreeze is still 2 years. OAT and HOAT seen in extended life anti-freeze is a completely different animal. There is no conspiracy here just an improvement in technology that you didn't know about. We could fill pages on anti-freeze technologies.