What are you trying to accomplish, Mayor? You don't like modern designs so much. That's fine. You're talking about it as if all old cars cease to exist when new ones come out. Want a 400 hp NA manual with a more classic exotic design? Go buy one. There are tons of them and have been for probably 20+ years. Whether the 720S is a classic is irrelevant. Not everyone wants to see classic designs, nor do they care if a car isn't timeless. They'll keep it for as long as they like it, then buy whatever the next design is to their liking. People sell great looking cars for different and/or lesser looking cars all the time. So what? Maybe they're just bored of the car and want something new. Nothing wrong with that. Show me a fantastic design and I'll show you someone who sold the car and bought something else that you consider lesser. Lots of people on here had no problem dumping the 458 for a 488 and couldn't be happier. What's that say about such an acclaimed design?
Well, discussion is welcome. What we're saying is that you are not discussing. I don't go to a Chinese restaurant and complain that the food isn't bavarian. You come to the most technical brand and complain that the design is not classical. Guess what, that's exactly what McLaren buyers want from McLaren. And whenever there is a newer (faster) car there is that discussion "speed doesn't matter, the [275 GTB] is fast enough" (ok, I am exaggeration). No. Speed does matter, as does acceleration, as does aerodynamics. If you're not a track driver, acceleration matters most. Now the 720s is most likely acceleration much better than most of the stuff out there, and it does matter if you're driving on a highway in a 488 GTB and next to me comes up a 720s and just leaves me behind. I don't care about some souped-up japanese plastic car, but if the next Lambo or McL is faster than me, I would be pissed. On the very rare occations in Germany you could even be pissed with a car having a higher top speed. On the contrary, the argument "these cars go hardly ever over 70 mph" is not an argument. You know that yourself that arguments like that do not contribute to a discussion about sports cars. For me, and that's of course personal taste, I would currently be torn between the F12 and the 720s. Hard call, one car a classic beauty, the other faster and much lighter. Go to the F12/812s section and complain all day about the 812s not looking like a beautyful stylish car, but has dropped into the direction of the dark side (more agressive) or looks closer to a corvette now. Don't critisize the "technical brand" for being technical. I'm not a McL fanboy, I am currently missing a classical Ferrari in the product range myself. Having said that, also my personal taste, the funneled air through the doors is also very a style issue and not just an aerodynamic idea, also the back looks undesputable nice (although not everyone must agree that it is their personal taste). If the lacking side intakes make up for the front intakes I can't tell, since I haven't seen the car in person. Last, a call from Europe to residuals. For the later cars they have been very good, especially since no one buys at list. Now if that's a useful pricing strategy having a high list price and discounting it massively - not sure about it. But I'm sure there won't be any high discounts for the new car. Now for residuals, making forecasts is difficult, especially for the future But I expect that the reviews for the 720s will be very good. Even the discussion 488 vs. 720 in the 458/488 section was quite skewed towards McL - on a Ferrari forum. Ferrari will have to come up with an answer. If it doesn't, that will leave the 488 in second place (yes, people seek out more modern and faster), but Ferrari has the spider. If there is a 488 VS answer quickly, that will not help 488 residuals. Anyway, the special edition cars are always limited, so a 488 VS doesn't help for a non limited 720s.
+ me. A great looking car with flowing lines and far better looking than the ugly IMO F430. If I was going to buy a modern "supercar" (highly unlikely as if I had that much money I'd be buying classics) I'd want one that stunned me with it's looks (sound and driving involvement*) so that I wanted to keep returning to my shed to have another look. In regards to whether it could do 200mph or 220 mph or pull 1.5 G versus 1.4 G I could not give a stuff because I am comfortable with the length and size of my penis. Now if I was purchasing a racing car, then yeah sure the performance details would be critical, but a supercar is NOT a racing car, it is but a flash road car. Pete * I believe McLaren's have too much computer control that may to me isolate the driver too much, but I have never driven one ...
For the McLarens-look-awful crowd, what are some modern sports cars that look amazing? Would be interesting to see what sort of tastes we're working with here. All this talk about what looks bad..... so what looks good?
I'm not the mclaren looks awful crowd but keeping it in similar price ranges: SV Roadster>675 LT Roof Scoop>SV Coupe>458 aperta>458 speciale>675 LT (non roof scoop)>488>458 I like 720s a lot. When I saw it in person, I didn't even bother listening to the presentation and I just kept walking around looking at the different angles of the car. Note: my list is cars that I have been around quite a bit (my own or friends). All my opinion and obviously it's subjective.
modern good looking - Gallardo, 458, 488, 720, huyura, nsx, nfgt, aventador, laf ok - 570, huracan, r8, ofgt, murci, 918 ugly - 650, 12c, p1
Amazing ? There really are none that I can think of. Even the ones with good form are screwed up by too many overwrought details. Even Aston Martin, the last bastion of good design, has lost the plot recently.
Aside from ferrari, new ford GT looks good, 918 looks good, aventador looks good, r8 looks good, astons look good, latest bentley concept looks good. Even the new Nsx looks miles better than any mclaren and it's far more technical as well. I really don't get this "mclaren are at the top of technology" when they can't even build an E-diff, a decent infotainment or even a new engine. They're just a small company with a big mouth who somehow hit a string with a few loud geeky internet fanboys IMO
What's so funny is someone starts a car forum to talk about cars and as soon as people start to talk about cars, others want them to shut up. Let me start with my positives again on this car because I have stated quite a few 1) the interior might be (as most Mac interiors are) the best in this segment. Aside from the TFT screen location and orientation and the software for it, it's pretty awesome. 2) the performance is mind blowing. And, I'm sure it will blow the 488 out of the water. 3) I am very impressed with the MSRP and that they have kept some of the options out of the "stupid prices" like Ferrari 4) I give them credit for making something bold and pushing the envelope So, am I still a hater? What disappoints me is that the design direction is so heavily a SLAVE to aero that it is not nearly as good looking as it could have been. And, McLaren is not alone here. But they have been the ones pushing this more than anyone else since they first entered the market. Does that make me a hater? Or, do I think that maybe they (and others) should care less about trying to go 215mph and maybe look a bit better at 200mph. I don't think that makes me a hater at all. If you do, fine.
To be fair I wasn't referring to people who posted on this thread but more in general to what happens in most internet car forums when Mclaren is named. There is definitely a pattern with the characteristic profile of the mclaren fanboy and his incessant illogical arguments all over the web
Well I'm actually interested in hearing everyone's opinions. This thing that makes me go "eh?" is when that opinion gets blasted out 50 times over in every thread about that topic. For instance, I think the worst thing to happen to cars in my lifetime is the advent of black wheels. Any time I see a car with black wheels I get the same sick feeling you get from watching a sports injury where the dude's femur pops out of his thigh. I tend to keep that to myself though and don't go around posting in every thread about it. If there were a forum called BlackWheelsChat.com I certainly wouldn't spend any time there posting "Your car looks bad and you should feel bad" since that would be pretty annoying. The other part that makes me go "eh?" is when the opinions being trashed are of a purely subjective nature. A few people mentioned they think the Gallardo, Speciale, Aventador SV, new NSX, etc look great, but I happen to think they look anywhere from bad (Gallardo) to godawful sh***y mess (Speciale). Everyone has a different eye for things though so it's impossible to say someone's perception of beauty is wrong, so you won't find me in the 812 Superfast thread telling everyone they're a stupid fanboy for spending their money on that affront to humanity. They happen to like it, and that's just fine with me. On the other hand I do absolutely love the GTC4 Lusso, so maybe I'm just a weirdo.
+1 Ive said same thing multiple times here already. Style is subjective. Btw i love, love, love black rims. Hate gray, chrome, or shiny.
Haha black wheels. You won't like my garage then However I am liking these newer diamond cut wheels that look neither black or chrome (or black and chrome depending how you see it). Even black chrome, yeah, thats it.
It really isnt subjective. However , everyone has the right to like whatever they like, even if its bad design. I like some bad design myself.
I see bad design as something that doesn't function well. car doesn't drive well or have ergonomics. other than that it IS subjective. but then again, that statement is subjective too. lol
Well I guess we can close all the art & design schools... Ill be sure to let the tens of thousands of professional designers aware that you have determined good design is subjective. Thanks for playing !
Performance is measurable, objective. Styling, like art btw, is subjective. That's why they're called art critics and not art testers. Art school/music school can teach you basics or theory or refine technique but talent is innate and appreciation for various forms is purely in the eye or ear of the beholder. But I forgot you know everything sorry man...
I dont know everything but being an award winning product designer for 30 years should count for something. It would be like me trying to argue law with a 30 year experienced attorney. Im simply not qualified to have that argument and you arent qualified to have this argument with me. Sorry, thats the harsh truth.
But at least the fanboys, aside from maybe a couple of them, have experience with what they're actually talking about. As far as I know, you don't have any real experience with any cars you discuss...
