Come on Noone. If Ron Dennis farted you would want a whiff. You don't think we don't look at "other forums"? You enjoy trolling here. We don't mind -- just be honest about it
Nobody likes RD. Not even McLaren guys. Has nothing to do with the 720s though. I would be surprised if RD has even seen it.
Differ from your "holier than thou" comments" in what way? Honestly McLaren's story has changed recently but you keep holding on to the same old story you tell about them like a grudge you can't let go of.
I drove a 488 a few weeks ago and the door handle is still hideously ugly. I drove a 720S last week and it is stunningly beautiful even in the ugly color scheme of the car they lent me.
I'm certain your 30 years of award-winning product design account for something however I'm not a lawyer and I argue with 30-years-of-experience lawyers quite often and I'm perfectly qualified to argue about the things I argue about. I'm also not a product designer but I form opinions based on my personal view of their work every day. One might say the customers' opinions are far more important than the designer's opinion. Both the law and design are open to the interpretation of those judging them.
I argue with my attorneys all of the time. And me arguing with you over an opinion of design or styling does nothing to take away from your skill, experience, awards, etc. I'm just simply expressing my own personal opinion on a subject that's open to interpretation. and if I argue my points and you argue yours and I still don't still beauty or you still don't see beauty, oh well, but the discussion is what's important. So you can't say, "I'm a designer so what I say is right and what you all say is wrong unless you agree with me". That's not going to get us very far.
LOL. My McLaren is up for sale and it's been a POS and you're crazy if you buy anything other than a 570S or 720S. So fanboy-ish, right? At least I'm not whining because someone won't make a car tailored specifically to me design taste. I don't go harping on and on about something subjective. It's almost as bad as arguing about exhaust sound. It's hilarious that you can't see the connection between you posting about the bad exterior design and others posting about disliking the interior. You keep saying how the interiors are excellent, and then a few posts later some guy says it's awful. Don't you get that it's just personal taste and has nothing to do with anything other than you simply not liking it? The emphasis on aero doesn't make it ugly, it's your brain. The emphasis on aero is what made someone else say it's gorgeous.
I dont get the lines in the sand being drawn over this debate. Does anyone here have an ownership interest in Mclaren or Ferrari? I like both brands, both cars. None of the cars are perfect. Each has its own quirks, plusses and minuses. Whats with the pissing match? Boggles my mind how some people defend companies and products as if they created them or have a vested interest in them. At the end of the day I thought we were all enthusiasts.
It's called a CAR forum dude--chill. People discuss, sometimes get heated, it's all fine. Do we need safe spaces here now?
and opinions change over time too. i did not like mac when they started with the 12c. i thought it was ugly and didnt like turbo motor. 458 was way ahead. same with the 650 which continues the wide door sills making difficult to get in and out. then the 570 moves styling in right direction. plus ferrari goes to turbo too with 488 which also spoiles classic profile of 458 with tacked on side vents. now 720 has more of a 458 profile and fixes the wide door issue. so i take 720 over 488 all day long. things change.
I can't wait to see one in person, it's already on my shopping list. There should be one out here locally sometime next month. I'm sure once I see it in person it will seal the deal...
It's a car forum. We discuss cars here. That's why we come here. This is a brand new car. It's going to get a lot of attention. No one has one yet so its open season. I've stated my likes and dislikes of this car. I've done it for every new car we talk about, including Ferrari, Ford, whatever. I don't see that as a negative. Healthy discussion is good for the soul. When you get comments like "I'd never buy this so and so" and "anyone who buys this is a so and so" it goes too far. No one here has done that. But what's the harm of an honest discussion about a new car?
I would take the 720 over the 488 because the 488 went backwards stylistcaly, lost the special motor, and I think the 720 is just going to be a superior car. Would I take a 720 over a 458S no, and before anyone quotes performance stats, besides brief accleration bursts I dont think anyone here takes either of these cars to their limits. To the extent someone does go near the limits its on track, and even then the differences for a non pro racer are moot, how late can and deep into a corner can you brake from 160 vs 165, and Ill still take the 458 because its probably more fun and styliticaly well no contest... But Ferrai wouldnt sell me a 458S, they are now "collectable" so not to be used, and they dont make them anymore so its moot. The 488 took a 458( a harmonious design) and some dolt took a scalpel too it and sliced pieces off, like face missing a two earlobes and part of an ear. The 720 some parts remind me of the Zonda and thats great, other parts, well its no beauty. The 488 looks betetr in pictures than int he flesh, maybe the Mclaren looks much better in the flesh from a standing height, as does the 570. Would I take a 720 over a performante. No question the 720 has more exotic bits and is more hypercar than supercar, but the deciding factor for me would be how they drove and "felt" on road and on track, the noise the feedback, did it feel live and connected. My criteria are a open road sunday drive and track, how they work on daily commute is relevant only to the extent that being good there"isolation" usualy means something has been lost elsewhere else is connected feel . Yeh laptimes aside I think the 720 is more cool/exotic than the performante, but I suspect a drive would be the deciding factor more than anything. The same way a drive in a 997.2 GT3 showed me it was 2X the car to drive over a MP12 or 458. But heres hoping Maclren gets it right.
When the 570 came out I also said I liked it's price, styling, user friendliness, and its great looking interior. Since then I've seen one in the flesh and I'm not as loving the exterior as I thought but its still a really fine car.
I agree. And I hope Ferrari does not "copy" this car and instead goes back to making something beautiful. The only issue I would have is if the 720 is reliable and if it's dealer network were stronger. Depreciation is a factor but if you smash the fender of a 488 it's the same thing -- instant depreciation. So you accept that when spending $300+ K.
I'm just one person and data point but I'm currently selling the 458S and I'm getting the 720. Not necessarily to make room for the 720 but speciale's not being used enough. Might as well sell it.
Fearri is really hit and miss on styling. the 458 being a rare hit since the 355. Depreciation is a whole other discussion. I tend to choose cars on how they are, and rarely sell, so for me its more whether a car is seminal to drive and look at and therefore going to be worth keeping. Besides a 360CS (for driving) and 458S(for style and driving) I cant think of a modern ferrari that would have been worth keeping long term. Seems most moderns are "faster" than the one before, but are less interesting to drive and less pleasing/interesting stylistcaly. As long as we are chasing paper numbers uber alles, the moderns are really just disposable machines, no longer coveted once the "faster" once come along. There is a reason why the "slower" 997 GT3 is coveted over the faster 991 Gt3. Years ago a bike racer with a kawasaki and a desmo ducati said to me, Its not just how fast you go, but also how you go fast that counts. Lest see if the Mclaren has the drive magic, something the Mp12 and 650 missed. Stylisticaly they can improve it over time. Even then I'll reserve judgement because I though the P1 looked Ok in pictures but was simply stuning in the flesh once you could take in all those details. The P1's small size and purposeful design of a body shrunk to the minimal proportions barely hiding mechanicals which peeked out of the body everywhere makes it a masterpiece, if not elegant, but then a countach is a masterpiece but also not elegant. My hope for ferrari, see a laferrari in the flesh, it stunning if a little long, hopefully thats their future design language. Lambo the Hurucan and Avetador imo photograph better than they look in the flesh, but are both balanced designs. The Hurucan for all its R8/audi slightly less exotic origins is hitting the ball out the park.
I thought the 997.2 Gt3 Rs was just so much more car and experience to drive than a 458 its not even the same conversation. Styliticaly, well the 458 is THE car of the past decade, with the aston vantage in no2..
As we all have different criteria, the 720 will no doubt sell for a while. Do you find the 458s not that interesting to drive? Never having driven one I cant comment other than to say that those who have say its not that different on street to a 458 which IMO was pretty boring at any semi sane street speeds.
I can understand that BUT, the 458s will be the last of a breed of high revving non-turbo non-hybrid powered cars we may see from Ferrari. To me, that's more of a pity.
i just never warmed up to my gt3. might have been that lsd went bad without me knowing which made for poor track experiences. havent tried 991 version but i am sure a 991.2 with stick would be terrific. never drove 458 on track but i liked it on street when take looks and sound all into account
Yeah, I hear you. I have a lot of friends with exotic cars and they themselves are all over the place in which cars they buy/sell/keep. examples: 458 to 488 to 458 speciale 458 speciale to 488 (couple of friends like this). They have TDF's to comfort them though - I'm still 50/50 of whether I really want to sell the speciale (even though it's for sale). Will see how it goes
