Who has the definitive proof of what is correct on a GT4??

Greetings all-

My early Series 1 308GT4- forever after referred to as the "V* Dino" has been doing great on the concours circuit.

Trying to clear a few things up because it seems that every "Expert", including myself- seems to have a different idea of what is correct? For those of you who KNOW for a fact the answers I'd appreciate your input.

What are the correct airbox nuts for a February 75 car? My car had the flat knurled nuts- some judges absolutely insist it should be the "muffin" style nuts

My car has magnesium valve covers and timing covers- When we took them apart they had what appeared to be factory paint on them- many insist these NEVER had paint- Did Ferrari really leave Magnesium covers unpainted?

Does anyone know the exact correct finish for the chassis rails? My barnfind car was clearly matte black and never repainted, yet some insist the correct finish is a satin.

Horsey placement- If I remember there is a TSB that shows the exact placement of the horsey on the rear of the car- Does anyone have that? My car has a 42 year old Ferrari horn button- Does anyone have a TSB that shows the dealer how to replace the "Dino" badged horn button? I'd rather keep my OEM button rather than use a Dino repro, but need to show the judges what is correct for the car as delivered in the USA.

Any other period correct details to add to my database would be appreciated- Happy to share whatever resources I have as well.
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Why v Dino ? Chassis number please? I have a series 1 also

 

Flat knurled air box nuts. The muffins are for 308

 

my chassis rails are more of a satin I scraped off the Zbart and there it was

 

Original on left zbart on right
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as usual its sideways but you get it. Also satin paint will turn flat eventually

 

I am a Master Judge and I have been doing this for quite a while. Some of these things can be difficult to get a perfect judgment on and at different events you may get different opinions. GT4 is not my area of expertise but from what I can find every GT4 factory engine picture for that age shows the flat knurled nuts. I have not gone through my TSB's to see but on the horn button and the air box nuts, it is really simple, bring both and show the judge. Ask which he prefers. Problem solved.


There are a million gradations of flat, semi flat, satin, semi gloss it can be impossible. Ferrari used a paint that was by my description much closer to flat than satin. Every time I see satin it is just too shiny. And make it all the same.

As far as mag valve covers and belt covers. The 288 GTO was the only street car Ferrari made with mag covers and they were painted. You are speaking of an alloy that contained some mag and they were bare. V6s and V8s up until the 288 had bare metal covers. If you ever hold a 288 valve cover or belt cover in your hand you will know immediately what I mean. They are feather light and painted inside and out. All the threads have inserts because mag will not hold a thread.

Also, if you have evidence you are right on something, bring evidence like factory pictures and argue your case. If you are not an advocate for your car no one else will be. Where were your air box nuts and horn button ruled wrong?


And get rid of that Fram filter before it costs you a motor.

 

Good info. What do you think of the frame rail photo? satin-ish?

 

As per the technical bulletin - there are links to it on the birdman site
http://www.birdman308.com/pdf/308_GT4_overview.pdf

and i found this on the old fchat forum that I can't believe is still up updates

 

Don't think it ever came into production, but they had an idea of black valve covers. Print nr N. 87/74.

/Peter
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I'm not a judge, but for many many years very very interested in 100% originality of GT4.

The following is about my personal investigation and is confirmed by (european) judges.

1. curled nuts, not painted black but bare (picture 1)
2. cam covers, only bare, never painted in any color (picture 1)
3. exact position for horsey (back and ADITIONAL on Front !) see picture 2
4. see also picture 2 for the horsey on the steering wheel
5. Chassis rails have been painted in 20-B-50 Gildden-Salchi Black (something between flat and satin, but more matte than satin), same color for boxer scheme.
6. The FRAM Oil filter is correct, but dangerous, so replace it by another orange FRAM, but a FRAM HP1, looking similar, but HighPressure.
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Yes the 73 Paris show car had black valve covers

 

I would agree with all you posted. The salchi black is amazingly the same as the Eastwood chassis black satin I have used on my car.

 

Thanks for all the info-

For the record- At Cavallino my car was docked for wrong horn button, wrong airbox nuts and matte black chassis rails. Since my car was an untouched barnfind we reproduced everything as close to perfect as we could.

Brian- Thanks for your notes- At the show I had a binder complete with restoration photos and details of what we re-painted or replaced- Judges were not willing to view it in it's entirety, and did not mention anything on the car that was inconsistent at that time. Only found out about the discrepancies when I received the judging sheet.

After the fact one of the judges informed me that I should have had the closed type airbox nuts- which I am fairly sure is incorrect.

 

Here we don't care about oil filters.

 

When you challenged it what was the response?

 

I wouldn't even dream of basing anything off a computer monitor.

 

Either. Way it's the original paint what ever it is

 

The problem is often times someone who has thoroughly researched and consulted with marque / model experts knows more about their car and the model in general than the people judging -- hence concours judging at the very highest levels with the best prepared cars can become more of a political exercise in convincing the judges that you are indeed an expert and know what you are doing. The best you can hope for is a judge who has an open mind and is willing to listen, versus one that is very egotistical and thinks he knows everything because he has been doing this for XX number of years!

I had this happen to me when judging my BBi first at FCA nationals and then at Cavallino. Needless to say, a senior level judge looked at my car at FCA nationals and deducted points for incorrect finishes on the hood latch hardware. Afterwards, I thoroughly researched the subject and consulted marque experts (Paul Newman in my case with a 512 BBi) and determined that I was correct. I presented my information to the judge several months later at Cavallino, and the first thing he did was run to the chief judge to get his opinion on the issue. The chief judge validated my research and ruled in my favor, but nevertheless, there was no apology or recognition form the offending judge that I was indeed correct. I should have been more tactful about how I handled the situation, but nevertheless, you need to recognize that concours at the highest level is a game where not everyone has the right answers and it is not a perfect science. One is more successful by not making enemies but realizing that everyone (judges included) are in this game together to preserve and understand the originality of the Ferrari automobile. It can be frustrating at times, but in the end building knowledge and learning about the intricacies and differences of each of the various models is everyones goal.

 

Well there's a few things I know. Baseball and Football officials make mistakes. Concours judges make mistakes too. Baseball and football officials get paid very well. Concours judges make squat. If no one calls for any of them to be held to account for their decisions no one should expect any improvement in those decisions.

 

I don't give a stuff about concours judging personally, but I think if you have a Dino front badge you should really have a Dino horn badge and wheel badges too.

 

Correct only for European cars, not for US cars.
But: Tastes differ

 

Is this also the color for carbureted 308s?

 

Not so. Early '75 US cars were originally Dino badged throughout. They also had big bumpers.
They were changed out later per the tech bulletins for sales purposes.