When will Vintage Ferrari's stop appreciating?

People dont buy classic based on paper numbers, its based on the design,experince, execution of the thing. Well there is some performance parametr, a Bug T35 drives like a throughbred as do most ferraris, on paper most are slow.

A ford focus Rs can outpace probably almost anything else made today and Nissan GTR certainly does. Whats the measure of outpace and its relevance.

Get on twistign mountain road where youre running between 40-90 in a mondial 8.32 and pick almost any other car. Ill bet you the limit of the speed traveled by either car will be sanity and neither one will outpace the other. Ill also bet that the mondial will be more engaing and fun than the modern.

On a highway for sure a minivan could probably smoke a mondial up to 90. But older ferraris keep going up to 150. A 355, on the highway, its going to go faster than anyone in the usa goes unless you are going fast to jail.

Now lets go back to your 60s example. There is not one regular road car made by ferrari in the 60s that will stay with a 308Gts or modial 8.32 on a mountain road. The 70s may not have made cars faster in a straight line, but their speed through bends (which is where the fun is) went up markedly.

Whats happend since then, well we live in the ra of cars that have irrelevant peed with capability that comes at a huge experiential cost.

I think a Mcalren 720 is great. I think a speciale is awesome. Realisticaly other than a track or an unrestricted road driving these cars is an excecise in holding back and at slower speeds thy are just not that much fun. In somthign older youll be going just as fast but having much more fun and a far ore imersive experince.

Take an older ferrari to the track a 512tr or a 288 and the ford RS is going to absolutely smoke it, probably a new cadillac will too. Look at the laptimes for an F40, I think a 430 is quicker, and scud obliterates it on paper I know which I would, rather drive or own.

What makes a car collectable. Design, sound, experince and performance, but performance is relative to use and expectation. Classic cars are motive art, its the whole thing from design to experience. I can tell you for a fact that a BBI is infinitely more fun at 120 than a 458.


The 70s were definatly unkind to domestic cars, in fact they were pretty much all crap from every perpective other than badit trans ams none are really desireable or collectable.. In Europe they didnt have bumper or emisisons regs, and euro cars kept evolving. True they didnt evolve hp or straighline speed, but they evolved where it was needed most by then handlign and braking, and they didnt loose the charisma that made the older euro cars so special..

On the road today you can only go so fast. What a sportscar is or should be is fun and an experince. Older cars have that in spades, moderns lack it, and thats a big reason why older cars are collectable and unique, its why people build kit cobras. Somewhre along the line fast cars got fast enough, the extra capbility now comes at a huge price in engagement.

Whats better a fatser Laferrari or a slower Mclaren F1.

I think one of "the" collectable cars 20 year from now will be an lotus elise, simply because its so engaging and perfect to drive. The eletric zippity doo will be quicker but so what.

Collectable cars tend to be charismatic, throughbreds in their field and the type of thing you cant get anymore.

Better buy those cheap vipers quick.

i do think the Tesla will be collecatble simply because its the first real good and practical electric car. It will be like a 1920 Rolls Ghost, the first really good car you could use.

 

Fear not, there are plenty of affordable really excellent cars to buy these days, including new ones, the last z28 for example. Aston vantage probably the most beutiful car built in the last 20 years a classic on styling alone.

untill 308-355s go over 100k there will be plenty of classic style driving ferraris to buy to.

I grew up in the 70s, and with very rare exceptions(308 some porche) all new cars were crap and the futre looked bleaker.

 

I believe classic Ferraris will always appreciate. Depending on the economic/financial mood, they may appreciate very little for a long time or skyrocket in bursts for a short while.

The only way they'd stop appreciating completely was if Enzo came back from the dead. The only precedent in History is Jesus, so I believe our investments are safe.

Kind regards,

Nuno.

 

The market is very strange, but it is also seems to be driven by panic buying people who are more into the investment factor.

I'm on my 3rd Ferrari and feel very fortunate to say this, as I am certainly not in the top 5% by any means.

Funny thing is, I always ended up buying one of the least popular Ferraris at time of purchase. I'm actually proud of this, in that I bought what I liked and could afford.

In the mid-90s, I purchased a white 328 GTS for around $40K that had been sitting at the Ferrari dealership for 9 months! We had to replace all the seals; but, once it started getting driven consistently, it was thrilling to drive and reliable. How much are they now?

In the late 90s, I was looking at TRs, when I inadvertently ran into a 512 BBi boxer. Back then, you couldn't give them away. Nobody wanted them. I thought they were edgy and fun, and the flat-12 is a great engine. But, discovered on the track, they are nothing more than mid-engined GT cruisers and nowhere near as exciting as the 328. But, still cool and they were around $70 - 90K. How much are they now?

A few years back, I finally achieved my dream of a front-engine V12 machine - a very undesirable (but, reasonably priced) 612 HGTS model, which I still have. This car will absolutely smoke my previous two cars without breaking a sweat. And I definitely enjoy driving the car, even if it is a dreaded 2+2 model. The odds are not good for future values on 4-seaters, but you never know and I really don't care.

The recent spike in the TRs, though, has me fascinated. They made nearly 10,000 of these cars (TR, 512 TR, 512 M). That's probably more than all the 550, 575, 599, and F12 combined!! It was the only "modern" 12-cylinder that outsold the corresponding V8s. You could get them for less than $50K a few years ago and then.... Through a very well coordinated effort of artificially positive articles, BS from the collector & prospectors, these cars exploded in value. For what reason? And don't tell me they're great sports cars. The prices are starting to moderate, but I'm still stunned at what happened here.

The market is nuts and probably driven more by perceived value than actual performance or experience driving the cars. I hope I never fall into that trap.

 

They exist... also the people who buy them aren't 25... because most 25 year olds don't have that kind of money or even appreciation for the cars.

most of the guys who own significant cars in the 60s may have been born in the 60s but thats it... They didn't own them... these cars are so rare there parents didn't even own them. Those that were wealthy and owned these cars... usually still have them. Its a very strange market

 

absolutely agree with you about the vipers. They are extremely undervalued. Very rare and collectible cars until you get to 2003.

Great cars.

i will disagree with the tesla... mostly because in the future... that car will be almost impossible to keep going. I know that sounds stupid but lithium batteries are not here to stay... I would say the roadster will be collectible. Sort of like a tucker. But the sedans will not be worth it. Especially when they get older and breakable. Try fixing a first gen ipad....

 

I think you are right and I like a lot of Sheehan's articles and I appreciate his perspective, but lately I think he's too hung up on over simplifying generational shifts. I think he is missing the fact that the millennial generation is delayed due to the great recession and they will come on line and probably display more typical purchasing habits. And Gen Z seems like it could be quite a boom when it comes on line. Aside from that, I think Mr. Sheehan is missing the fact that the number of high net worth individuals around the world has never been higher and that number is not likely to come down. Its likely to keep expanding. I think Mr. Sheehan is comparing an era where there was a robust middle class to our modern era where the middle class is either stagnant or shrinking. And thus the demand side of this equation is likely to continue to grow.

I agree there are generational shifts, but they are not everything. I think Enzo Era Ferraris are likely going to continue appreciating, but I also think there will be ebbs and flows. But long term trend is up. I also think this is true for iconic cars like the F40.

Yes, I think Enzo Era and truly distinctive Ferraris have transcended being just old cars, and can now be considered artwork. Well, at least thats my opinion!

 

I find Joe's points very interesting. I am 49. When I was in my twenties, enthusiasts had to go for manual cars, as the alternative was definitely worse (torque converter autos) - in general.

Now there's a generation that has been brought up being taught by Ferrari, McLaren, Lamborghini, and F1, etc, that paddleshift (of whatever type) is faster, better, easier, newer than manuals. And it is.

I find that interesting, as someone who knows no car-loving 20-something men. The 20-something men I know take uber and might buy a Prius.

I should qualify this by adding that I own five gated Ferraris and no two-pedal ones. So this is all faintly depressing.

 

Yogi Berra once said in reference to a famous restaurant:

"No one ever goes there anymore because its too crowded"

the Fchat version is

"Everyone wants to buy a stick because no one makes them anymore"

 

Sheehan has written many times about this generational shift and I think the point is overstated. Honestly the fact that you're in your mid 20s and say you'd love to have a SWB seems to be proof enough that there is at least interest from younger generations. The Enzo era cars were not built in big numbers and only a handful trade in any given year anyway so it doesn't take much as far as supply/demand. For a testarosa or other 80s Ferrari it's a different story I agree

I was born in the 80s and bought my first 250 GTE almost 10 years ago (which I still have) and know a handful of others my age who enjoy Enzo era cars.

 

this is an interesting question . I can only answer for myself I have noticed in the last 24 months that many classic cars are selling for less now then say 2 years ago and even more interesting is the number that did not meet the reserve or sold for less then the low estimate...at recent auctions...
another thing is I had long wanted a Daytona and recently has to make the decision of buying a car and in my mind it was going to be a Daytona s I had long wanted or a 599GTO I went for the GTO because I just wanted a little more comfort and reliability ....
I have noticed that in. the last 5 years I have transformed my cars from predominately early car to now more modern cars.
Although I did by 3 cars this year a 599GTO and a 1966 Shelby GT350 and a cobra replica ...
so 2 of the three were more modern cars...
for what its worth..
by the way I am not a young guy...

 

There is no "vintage Ferrari market." There is only a market for individual cars. Some like a 250 GTO or SWB will never come back down to earth. Others, such as a Lusso, may follow a different pattern.

 

No chrome go home!

 

Because the 16 year olds who would stay home on Friday nights to watch "Miami Vice" in the 80's are now in their 40's. The financially successful ones are buying them.

IMHO