Todt: F1 Return to V8 Engines Will Never Happen

The drop in viewership in F1 is not a disaster of cataclysmic proportions.
So, the show doesn't please the spectators anymore and they walk away. So what, eh?
It's just like launching a new film and getting bad critics...
It will be better next time.

There are lots of reason why people don't attend, follow an activity, a sport or an entertainment. The public is not captive anyway, and trends and tastes change with time as well. The illusion that growth lasts forever is at the origin of this.
Less people watch F1, so what?
Don't you know that everything has a beginning, a period of growth to reach a stability period, followed by decline and extinction? Or do you want to stop a process that exists since the world exists?
Maybe F1 has gone beyond its shelf live and people want something else, who knows?
F1 wouldn't be the first activity/sport to disappear, would it?

I am not worried the least by a drop in viewers and spectators. Maybe the decline would stop if people could watch F1 on TV without paying for it, and track tickets became affordable again? Just a thought, eh?
If I was to solve F1's problem, I would start there.
Pay-as-you-view and TV subscription is what really turn people away.
It did in my case, on a matter of principle.
I only follow F1 now if it doesn't cost me a dime!

Once F1 has tasted hybrid technology, it would be difficult/silly to go back to atmo engines.
Technology tends to go forwards, not backwards. If we were to turn the clock back, why not throw away carbon fibre, paddle shift gearbox, carbon brakes, etc... Where do we stop?
Shall we go back to carburators too? You see where that leads...

Personally, I would like more diversity and different solutions in F1, but that's unlikely to happen with today's management.

 

William, I respectfully disagree. I proffer that whatever engine F1 uses, technology will continue to move forward, always looking for an advantage. It does not have to be relegated to anything historic.

As example, examine the tech history of piston engines from circa 1971 until now. I not-so-fondly remember when Cat converters were first introduced in the US. Cars became clunky, finicky, low HP, low mileage monsters that were more expensive to manufacture and buy (and this on top of a gas crises or two). And those were just the so-called "49 state" versions. California had harsher restrictions out of necessity and those cars were deemed worthless from a driver's standpoint. It seemed at the time that the thrill of driving was in extreme danger of extinction. And indeed for a long time, collectors lusted after 1969 or earlier Mustangs and Camaros and Corvettes because why? Because that's where the excitement was. Not just the historic value.

Japanese car makers started to break that mold with innovative engine designs, creating "50 state" cars again, and made driving more fun by lightening the cars, using overhead cams, higher rev limits etc. And slowly but surely, the Porshce's and Ferrari's and Lambo's of the world rejiggered and reinvented the piston engine.

Fast forward and eventually, it was like a second renaissance. Clean cars could create more horsepower and produce the most thrilling exhaust sounds EVER created (with correspondent upticks in brakes, traction etc.)

My point simply is that given such enormous technical progress in fuel powered piston engines over this time, there's no reason to expect that if F1 went back to piston power only, that progress would not continue. An unlimited style race car is never going to "really" be like a street car no matter how it's dressed up. It might as well have a great sound to it.

I can imagine a future where there is one design for street cars (responsible and relevant to the earth's realities) and one design for a professional form of entertainment (such entertainment being there for the express reason of letting people watch something that they cannot enjoy as a guilty pleasure).

My parting thought to you William, is A) My little rant was in fact a bit over the top on my part, and B) I don't feel it's necessary for us as a species to equate totally reasonable and in fact necessary protection for our planet as equal justification for how our myriad sports activities should be run. The two should and must co-exist and should co-exist. Our sports have always been separate from our day-to-day realities as it should be. But our desire to not lose excitement in our sports, any sports (unless we're about to bring back the gladiators) I don't feel should be fed from guilt when we do try to work towards a better world in general. In fact, I maintain that the difficult compromises we may have to make in the future regarding our relationship with our daily drivers can be mitigated by some unfettered excitement now and then on the track.

Cheers!

 

Keep the hybrids and ERS, and I think they should allow more fuel, maybe even refueling, and let these engines rev to 18k rpm or higher. I think they would sound pretty darn good. Then aren't most people happy? I know I would be, still the pinnacle with technology but getting a big part of the show that we are missing right now.


Alex

 

Amazing how some of us can find value in so many different things.

 

OK, we will have to see if the constructors in future will be interested in diverting their efforts from their core business (electric street cars) to continue developing in parallel an alternative technology solely for F1 (atmospheric IC engines).

I don't think they will, and the adoption of hybrid and later electric technologies will be made to keep their support. IMHO.

 

Thank you for confirming for a third time that it's a good thing you aren't in charge of F1. You would drive it towards utter insignificance (as measured by viewership) all for what? "Progress" as you see it?

As I explained, there is nothing more advanced with electric motors, they have been around longer than the IC engine for goodness sake. So please, enough already parading around as if you're wearing a suit made from invisible thread, we can see otherwise.

But forget about you or me, let anyone else reading this do the thought experiment for themselves and see what conclusion they come to. Option A, B, or C.

If the FIA and the powers within F1 agree with you, so be it. We'll see what happens as a result. And we'll reserve the right to say "I told you so" into perpetuity.

-F

 

There are some truly off-the-wall analogies going on here. Make it loud fast and may the best team and driver win.

 

Well you never know... perhaps the "sound problem" is, over time, no more intractable than pollution controls were in my example.

 

LOL !!! Great group of people here... I gotta get back to work...

 

F1 wouldn't be the first business would go bust, would it?

It happens all the time, every day.

We are some way off that, I think.

Look how ChampCar ceased to exist; it was not a catastrophe.

 

I'm talking about a rock concert, william. You know, like the kind you wouldn't go to due to noise hazards. You must be a riot at parties...or let me guess, too loud?

william - out of pure curiosity, what is your IDEAL F1? What do you WANT it to become? You seem to crap on everyone else's wishes for loud fast cars so lets hear it.

 

My ideal F1?
More or less as it was last year (narrow tyres and 180cm wide), with a lot less aero, no wide wings, narrower front wings, etc...
I am happy with hybrid power units, 1500cc max, but free configuration, number of cylinders, etc...
No ban on testing and development .
Complete freedom on the number of engines/gearboxes used during the season.
No exclusive engine deal; an engine supplier that wants to enter F1 must make its power units available to teams.
Complete freedom on tyre choice, and no mandatory tyre change during the race.

In future, introduction of halo or some form of cockpit protection.
Also wheels enclosed on half of their circumference.

Probably 15 or 16 races maximum, preferably on circuits that attract the most spectators.
Every year, the 2 circuits that attracted the least spectators should be dropped in favour of 2 new ones that may attract a bigger crowd. This, to eliminate empty grandstand and stop governments from "buying" themselves a GP. It would also encourage the circuits that have regular fans to lower their prices.

At each GP, 2 x 1-hour practice sessions on Friday.
One short qualification race on Saturday (half a GP), with the grid determined by a draw.

A warm-up session on Sunday morning. Followed by the GP in the afternoon, with the grid determined by the qualification race. Same point scoring system.

Each team participating to a full season should receive a minimum participation fees of $25M paid progressively during the season. Teams should receive moneys only based on their results.
Historical right fees and special fees abandoned.
Fees should be paid progressively during the year to avoid cash flow problems.
Teams don't need to own the intellectual rights of their chassis, but can buy them from outside suppliers or other teams.

Strict enforcement of track limits, if necessary through electronic means, and penalties imposed on drivers.

 

Goodness gracious. We're trying to improve the product in order to make F1 more viable well into the future (as measured by viewership). You seem content to ride it into the dirt.

No wonder you propose such unappealing things, you have no concern whether they will have a positive effect on the viability of the sport or not.

-F

 

Let's be honest, you can make every effort possible to improve the show, if the people don't come to watch it, it goes bust. End of story.

It may be that the show is good, but the public has new interests, or there is competition with something new. What is the trend for one generation, may not be for the next, etc...
People in show business and entertainment will understand that.

I think people have to abandon that concept that everything is set in stone and lasts forever.

Yes, if F1 was to disappear I wouldn't be distraught about it; I have other interests and I am not obsessed by it.

 

Ok. So all those people that are leaving, why have they left?

Reading many comments over the years, not here but everywhere, hearing what people say that go to the events or state their reasons for not watching anymore...a lot of them claim that one of the reasons is that the cars sound like ****, and it's too complicated.

There's a small percentage of F1 viewers that DO like these hybrid engines but you have to agree, they're by far in the minority. You seem to be a loud advocate for this group. Why listen to the minority?

You yourself say that some trends do not work in showbiz, and they showrunners understand that. Guess what. They don't let their show just die. They change what needs to be changed, to get it to work again!

Your last statement says it all. You couldn't really give a flying **** if F1 ends tomorrow, because YOU have other interests. For many F1 fans, F1 IS the only sport they like. Best listen to them I suppose...

 

Well, yeah, that's what we've been saying all this time. All the while you have casually put your hand up in defiance, uttering an unsympathetic "meh".

The drop in viewership can be ascribed to a whole host of things. I assert a large part of it has to do with the product on the track. Yes there are other factors but I put forth the product on the track is one of the big ones and until that is addressed, viewership will be down, might even continue to drop!

You don't seem to care. That's fine. But forgive us who do care if we respond to your prognostications with our own hand up in the air, followed by a "no thank you sir, we'll try something else, we don't want this thing we love to die on the vine."

You have Formula E, you should be happy with that. Stop trying to ruin a sport you don't seem to care much about. What kind of person does that anyway? Weird.

-F

 

Listen, I have my opinions, even if they are not popular or go against the views of the majority. In fact, I take great pride in never following the majority like a lemming, but to stand for what I believe. I listen to nobody but myself.

I couldn't care less if millions of F1 supporters want something different from what I wish. No point asking people in surveys what their opinion is, if it's expected they all want the same, no? In that case, it isn't a survey but a petition!

I will never understand why the absence of a certain noise is such an issue, nor why people are so adverse to change and progress.
Stop watching F1 because it makes less noise than before sound like a stupid reaction to me, sorry. I never heard something so ridiculous.

I love something new, and I welcome new technology, even if I don't fully understand it. I think the hybrid technology is marvellous, just like electric cars.
I am thrilled by low emission, fuel saving and energy recovery on vehicles; to me, that's the future.
I know that the majority finds that boring because it far easier to go through life in a hedonistic mode, without concern for waste, pollution, and the degradation of the environment. I know that tree-huggers are a pain ...

 

In what way I do that?

I just give an opinion about F1.

Are you just annoyed because I don't join the crowd of people who blame everybody because their toy is broken?

 

I personally think F1 has run it's course and has no place anymore.

Reasons:
1. F1, and whatever it was called before F1, was important for the automotive industry and captured automotive enthusiasts imagination because it was leading the improvement in technology of the automobile.

2. Over the years the FIA/Bernie/whoever have fiddled with the formula to make the cars safe or the racing er, more competitive or to supposedly enhance the show (ie. unnecessary fuel and tyre stops).

3. We absolutely know how to make a car now, there is little to develop except stupid things like connectivity to iPhones, etc. or of course non-IC fuels ... but lets ignore that part as you guys are not interested in that area.

Sure there is room for development of the race car still, such as finally doing ground effects properly but for safety reasons this is probably never going to be explored as the cornering speeds would be too high resulting in the outside of corners being spectator free areas reducing $'s venues can make.


So what is left for F1 now? Just entertainment ... like a TV show ... yawn, and we are always left wondering did they really win or was it the "directors" working the show.

Now if racing in a restricted, no purpose other than entertainment and no longer developing technology was the go for F1, why isn't everybody who is complaining that F1 is too quiet and boring watching IndyCars, which is exactly what they want: an old fashioned formula with their preferred IC engine doing all the pushing?

IndyCars viewing numbers should be going through the roof! It isn't, so as William said, people are not as interested in motor racing and cars anymore because of point 3.
Pete

 

I suppose all us crazy people don't understand why you bother to have an opinion, and state it over and over and over again, when you claim not to care. Seems like a huge waste to me and you claim not to like waste.

When I don't care about something, I don't engage in conversation about it at all.

 

Yep, it's Barnum.

 

No, I'm annoyed because in several posts you displayed a blase attitude towards the future of F1, all the while proposing changes that might further it's decline!

And when you are pressed, you come back with the equivalent of "so what".

If I misread you then I apologize. But you did it in several posts so I came to my conclusion based on several examples. If you would like me to repeat back the words in your posts that led me to that conclusion I can do that.

If my protestations come across as nothing more than "blaming everybody" then perhaps I'm not making my point clear enough or perhaps you aren't really bothering to actually read my posts.

The point is viewership is down (way down?) and I assert the main reason (or perhaps one of several key reasons) is the product on the track. And if that's true then Todt's (and your) obstinate position will produce more of the same.

People who don't care about the future of the sport will have the same reaction you seem to have, "so what". People who do care about the future of the sport will have quite the opposite reaction, "please fix this thing we love".

-F

 

Are you so dense that you don't realize it is YOU who are resistant to change? We're saying "FIA, please change". You on the other hand are thwarting change at every move.

-F

 

It seems that for some people attendance rating is all important to measure the success of F1.

For me it isn't. That's all.