Todt: F1 Return to V8 Engines Will Never Happen

You are both talking about different changes though

William is talking about change away from the beloved IC engine, while you are talking about removing the core reason of F1, ie. automotive development, and returning to the IC engine that we mastered 20 years ago, at least, for the sake of simply more noise assuming this change will reverse the declining interest in F1.

I think lack of noise is a scapegoat and fringe enthusiasts are turning away anyway, because it is just car racing.

BTW I thought the 2017 Melbourne race was as good as any I've seen, including the 90's. Now that we do not have those stupid "artificially going off" tyres and we can actually see some competition on the track .
Pete

 

Finally we're getting somewhere. Only took about five pages of back and forth.

-F

 

My point is that the number of eyeballs( to quote somebody) doesn't reflect the quality of racing we have in F1 at the moment. There is more to it than that.

I may be in the minority, but I tend to support Jean Todt in his view that, to stay at the pinnacle of motor racing, F1 has to follow the path of engineering progress.

F1 has to be seen as an outlet of innovation, and not stay frozen in time, or go back to V8 atmospheric engine rules because they make the noise some think that's what racing should be.

 

That sums it up perfectly if you ask me.

 

Our side is saying make changes to improve the product (specifically the sound but also reduce the complexity if such a thing is possible). William and Todt are saying "no way, no changes!". Certainly no changes away from turbos! They are the ones fighting change.

I can just see those guys with their arms closed tightly and a stern look on their face, while the customers head for the exits.

Now which side is "stuck in the past"?

William (and Todt) are hell bent on moving everyone to their vision of a glorious future but everyone is not so eager to go down that road as evidenced by the reduction in viewership.

Please sir, post up some examples to support your assertion. I think we have all heard from other fans as to how the cars don't sound as good and don't look as good as they did in the past. I know that's how I feel, no scapegoating there.

Now, if MB's dominance wasn't so absolute, if Ferrari actually won for a change, if McLaren was actually OK, if the race tracks actually had nearly filled seats, if the story of the sport wasn't about soaking the public bank account to put on, if all those things were rectified we could possibly live with the cars in their current state.

But no, none of that has come to pass AND we have cars that sound like crap and look kind of weird.

Hey, it looks like the FIA is following william's lead and is putting it's foot down so we'll see who is right over the next few years, our side or william and Todt's side. If we end up being right, as seen in viewership over the next few years, we reserve the right to say "told you so" again and again. And if the other side ends up being proven correct, they can return fire in kind.

-F

 

When I say "change and progress", I mean adopting new technology, allowing new process, accepting different systems, etc...

I just don't thing that going 20 years back and abandoning all we have learnt since is progress.

When you change, you want to change for the best, not looking back.

Most of the critics about F1 is that it sounds different, and it's too "complicated" to understand. But that doesn't means it's bad.

People tend to forget the achievements realised by the engineers in designing power units that are equally powerful if not more, but use half the fuel because they recover energy from everywhere, rather than spewing it in the air.
For me, it's astounding to see that.
There is something to celebrate there; I cannot understand why people don't see it!

 

Yes we know, didn't you place the importance of sponsors above the importance of customers?

No doubt, Todt seems to have your same hierarchy of values. As customers head for the exits you and Todt respond with a back of the hand "so what?".

Yes, so what. The customers will leave and the pot of gold will shrink and the value in sponsorship will be reduced and then they will say "so what" and leave and teams will fold and venues will dry up and F1 will end up being merely a shell of what it once was.

But we've already established that you don't seem to care about that so my argument is like talking a tree. A tree doesn't care about the future of F1 so why would I bother pleading with it? A complete waste of time.

-F

 

Now you come clean !!!

You "could possibly live with the cars in their current state" ... "if MB's dominance wasn't so absolute, if Ferrari actually won for a change, if McLaren was actually OK".

So, it's really Mercedes domination that irks you, and nothing to do with noise and hybrid system, right?

If Ferrari was dominating for the last 3 years, you would probably applauded all along, never questioned the formula nor blamed Todt for it.

You don't accept that Mercedes did the best job and is rewarded for it. I thought that was the underlying reason behind all your posts.

Well, I am no partisan, I welcome as winner anyone who does a good job, and Mercedes deserves its success. The rules are the same for everybody, and the best team wins. Period.

 

You must not have actually read what I wrote so I'll repeat it for clarity.

An electric motor is no more progress than an IC engine. An electric motor is OLD technology, OLDER than an IC engine for goodness sake. Using an electric motor IS looking back.

Of course we can make advances to an electric motor just as we can make advances to an IC engine.

I'm saying make changes to improve the product. I don't care (within reason) what those changes are, let's just look at what the options are and consider them. Let's ask the guys who actually engineer the cars what they would want if they had their choice. What kind of restrictions would they like to see?

You on the other hand put your foot in the ground, cross your arms and say "no changes", "we MUST have turbos or KERS" or whatever technology you fancy.

Now who is being the one resistant to change? YOU ARE!

-F

 

No, I actually refuted the claim from someone that the fans were the most important stakeholders in F1. In my view they are not.

The fans come to see the show once it's all set up and paid for by the sponsors financing the teams, allowing them to design and build the cars, and later to operate them.

The fans don't put money UP FRONT, the sponsors do, so they should be listened first. They are the main stakeholders. Their views are paramount in the decision making; they are the main investors.

Of course attendance is important, but let's face it, the fans don't support the teams as much as the sponsors. The fans are customers.

Where would F1 be without sponsors?

 

william is the kind of arguing just for the sake of arguing.

fact is, drivers, fans, team bosses, promoters, etc. all want the noise back.

 

This conversation is really sterile.

None of us is going to convince the other.

We have different take about F1; let's leave it at that.


BTW, not emitting noxious fumes is progress for me. Tut, tut, tut ...

 

noxious fumes! oh dear! deafening noise! oh dear! scary speeds, oh so much risk. oh dear!

dude why do you follow racing?

 

Your reading comprehension seems to degrade as you fall over yourself attempting to score a point.

I gave you a litany of ills that could be changed and in exchange "we" (I) perhaps could live with the crappy sound and weird looking noses. Perhaps with all those things rectified we would begrudgingly come back to the sport. But begrudging customers is not an example of a company delivering excellent customer service.

I like to see Ferrari win so perhaps I could close my ears and close my eyes and cheer on the team. Not sure I would sit in front of the TV though. Not sure I would pony up to go to a race given the state of product on the track. (We know, we know, you don't think the number of customers is really relevant. Seems like Todt agrees with you!)

Love how you pat yourself on the back for not being a partisan. Pulleeze, we all can see where your partisanship lies.

No sir, I have love for all the teams and all the drivers. You see, I'm a fan of the sport. Which is why when I see such intransigence based on its own form of partisanship, in the face of significant headwinds, I just shake my head in disbelief that a company could be so self destructive. Yes, we've seen it all the time, self destructive companies. But it's rare to see one self destruct all while the customers are trying to stop if from doing so!

-F

 

Oh believe me, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. We can all see how stuck in the mud you are.

No, I'm simply presenting my case and letting the readers decide the merits of my argument.

I bring the readers back to the thought experiment, really just a simply parlor game. That is:

If william were in charge do you think his proposals would lead to:

A) An increase in viewership
B) A decrease in viewership
C) No change

The readers can decide for themselves.

And all this isn't theoretical. All this stuff is in play now and we'll see how viewership will react over the next few years as a result.

-F

 

Because engineering should not be celebrated at the cost of ruining something that used to be interesting.

It's why people filled stadiums to watch gladiators but don't fill stadiums to watch a chess match. Smart, in and of itself, is simply not all that entertaining.

 

Speed and driving skills in a competitive environment is what racing is about.

Noise and fumes do not define racing, they are just by-products .

Well, maybe not for you ...

 

Post of this thread. It may be technically innovative, but F1 is not exciting nor is it entertaining. I quit watching the races live last year and fell asleep watching the dvr of Australia last Sunday evening and could not be bothered to rewind it. Having attended 24 races across Italy, Australia, Canada and the USA in person between 1992-2013, the current formula and particularly the PUs hold very little interest to me. I tried watching Formula E twice, fell asleep both times and turned the channel once I woke up. Formula 1 stopped being the pinnacle of racing in 2014, I am much more interested in attending MotoGP races and really enjoyed going to Austin last year.

 

then why doesn't everyone just slot car race?

Why are they racing cars? They could just race on a simulator and we could all tune in and watch the simulators and see exactly what they were seeing etc...

If you don't think the smell of race gas in the air... the loud noises of engines have anything to do with racing... you sir... must have never attended a live race.

I can't tell you what I ate for lunch yesterday... but I can describe my favorite moment of going to the track before sunrise... getting to the infield... hearing the garage doors open... the tool drawers opening... the random sound of an air impact or rachet... the smell of coffee... the sun peaking over the grand stands and suddenly the cool morning turning into a warm beam of light... and the very very first car to fire up and cold start... cracking through that morning crispness... then... the smell of race fuel... and it all happening more and more and more until thats all you can here...

I love it.

 

Stop it stop it !!!

I have to work today and now all I want to do is fire up satan and go to the track

There's track days and then there's boredom

 

Exactly. There's a big difference between not caring... and judging plus trying to insist you're right.

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Oh how funny. For a moment there I thought you had called it an "outlaw of innovation"... Silly me.

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So come visit NYC and you can watch all the Hybrid cabs jockeying for pole position. Absolutely the pinnacle of stimulation!

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Funny thing is they do this now. I think it is part of the Formula E series. I watched one televised race and well not sure what to say ...

My kids and I play Mario Kart on the Wii and is is great fun and you can throw things at the other cars to stuff their race ... F1 from an entertainment point of view could learn something there ... lol

I was driving the other day and I smelt race gas ... brought back memories


It is interesting to me how the noise has managed to maintain many people on this sites enthusiasm for F1 considering the most recent Melbourne race was as good as we have had since the 1990s and yet some turned off ... the best Australian GP's were always at Adelaide; 1994 comes to mind and the one when Mansell's tyre blew. Yes the noise back then was good, but so more importantly was the competing on the track, even though we only ever have 2 or 3 competitive cars/drivers on any F1 grid.
Pete