Todt: F1 Return to V8 Engines Will Never Happen

Calm down Bas.

I think keeping the hybrid engine is necessary to keep the constructors on board in F1.
Big manufacturers need to justify why they are involve in F1 and spend large budget in it, apart from an advertising viewpoint.

They can sell the idea to their shareholders if they can explain the technical fallout of participating, even if the track results are not outstanding. "We learn a lot about new technologies which are RELEVANT to our street cars" they can claim to justify the expense. Racing can benefit of some of the R & D budget of the firm too.

That's why manufacturers are important stakeholders, IMO, and why the FIA sees it that way too.

Of course, the FIA could well decide to ignore the constructors, and go alone, p*****g them off by adopting an old 3L atmo V8 formula and offer Mecachrome to supply the engines.
That would be easier, simpler but that wouldn't be the pinnacle of motor racing, that would be GP2+.

 

I gather you wouldn't like to watch the Isle of Man TT then.

Riders are released at intervals, and compete against the clock on a road circuit.

Rarely 2 riders fight on the track, and if they momentarily do, it means that one of then is already 30 seconds down!

 

You'd be wrong. I actually plan to go see it live one day and I have no problem with the format. But there's sound, speed and huge danger involved. Entertainment. Remember?

But if your format is all cars at the same time, competing to beat each other and not a clock, then no overtaking equals boredom.

 

Speed and thrill certainly.

But not much chance of watching duels on the road; the TT is in fact very difficult to follow.

All the riders have to finish before you know who's the winner.

So, my point about overtaking being necessary?

Not much overtaking in rallying either !

 

of which neither one (Isle of Man TT, rallying) will go electric. You have sound, speed and thrill of which touch the basic most primal senses of the human anatomy....all entertaining to the senses of the human anatomy.

 

Bas isn't the only person William has misread and misrepresented.

Bas has thoroughly and thoughtfully laid out a possible way forward for any and all to review and discuss and poke holes in.

William on the other hand responds with a "meh, I don't care" all the while sticking his feet in the ground and crossing his arms in response, and responding with more cockamamie ideas that will likely drive the sport into further decline (closed cockpits, enclosed wheels, electric motors, etc.). It's like talking to someone who is actively trying to ruin the sport, while professing he doesn't much care for it anyway.

At what point is it reasonable for the other side to show frustration in that junk?

-F

 

You know, I'm exhausted by you because you're either too dense to actually read or you need a hobby besides aggravating people online.

The format of F1 is cars racing AGAINST EACH OTHER. Therefore, my expectation is cars racing against each other.

People die at the Isle of Man TT. That's enough risk for excitement for me. And that race is one of real men. Not a bunch of billionaire suits trying to figure out the next best way to get another million for their pockets.

 

Thank you

 

Really:
Here's one of the TT's all time greats: John McGuinness giving an all electric TT Zero bike a go during the TT week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlxZs2-gICc

And here are some more TT Zero bikes at the TT (Being ridden by the likes of John McGuinness and Bruce Angsty) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHp_xMroxpM

Now I'll grant you that the electrical squealing noise isn't the most pleasant noise to say the least, but it's interesting to see that some of the TT's great modern day riders are not adverse to the idea of electric bikes at the TT.

Oh sure, given the option, they'd pretty much be guaranteed to take the petrol bike every time, but that's the thing, one day the choice will simply no longer exist!

Here's an all electric rallycross car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5844VCjRpv0

Whilst it's not a rally car, it's not a million miles away from being one, and amply demonstrates the possibilities of electric rally cars.

The fact is, sooner or later, the petrol/diesel burning internal combustion engine will be banned, not only as daily transport, but also for motorsport, and when they are, the manufacturers aren't simply going to cease all motorsport activities, they will go Rallying, TT-racing, F1 racing, sportscar racing, rally crossing, touring car racing, etc., etc with electric vehicles, and that includes rallying and the TT!

 

Sorry to announce you there is already an electric category at the TT.
It has been won by John McGuiness for the 2 last years I believe on a Mugen.

Also, electric rally cars are very much on the cards, I read, and constructors are already developing electric rally cross cars in the meantime.

Watch this space!!!

 

Be careful there Phil; by stating the obvious, you risk to incur the wrath of the "purists".

 

Mamma Mia!...excusa!...... fair enough Phill and William

 

The difference being participating in the race or spectating.
I think the current F1 sucks and gave up watching several years ago. The current cars sound like farting in a bathtub and look ridiculous, to my eye anyway.
As silly as I find the current cars to watch I'd love to get behind the steering wheel(they still have those, right?), same with Form E or NASCAR. Must be great to drive one but I'd rather watch ladies curling.

 

There's a contingent that say the "noise' is just a bygone attribute of a bygone era and it's just us nostalgic Q-tips who can't let the past go. But here's the thing about the "noise." I was watching an F1 race must have been five years ago and I had the race on full tilt in theater room. My daughter came in and asked "what is that? what are they doing? They sound like bees or something? That's cool!" And from then on she took an interest somewhat and used to even ask if a race was on. Fast-forward... she no longer watches nor really cares all that much. Why? "Mercedes always wins... Nico's such a baby... it's boring and is just so different"

READ: No Noise!

Anyone ... well at least a lot of people... realized there was something unique about what they were hearing in an F1 race... they couldn't understand that this was special even if they knew little about racing because nothing sounded like that and it caused a lot of curiosity even amongst non-race fans like my teenage daughter.

 

Hey dude. You really are up to some mischief here if you declare it was actually bees that lured her into F1. No wonder she no longer watches. They grow up so quickly and learn to use wiki and find out all about bees.

But you are right. F1 had that appeal of pilots handling a mad beast around the tracks. Beasts that normal mortals were not able to operate. Beasts that were screaming and frequently blowing up at that.
We still had the blowing up part for a while, but at least since the aera of McLaren Mercedes and their cars driving on rails in the late 90's, the beastiness is gone. They were just yelling at us... at least that nostalgia was still there. That's what progress in engineering did so the sport.

That's what leads to the other part of so frequent discussions here. Modern cars no longer allow to distinguish drivers. Sometimes you see a flicker of talent shining through, but usually it is all about driving on those rails. Also here is no cure, this, too, is the cost of progress.

 

Whatever the next engine formula is, it has to be decided pretty quick.
It takes easily 3 years to bring a new engine to life and make it operational in a racing environment , at at the end of the 2017 season, we will be 3 years from the end of this formula.
We don't want F1 to repeat Honda's miscalculation of joining too late and never be able to catch up.

 

Re the comments about passing ... sorry guys and girls I have to comment.


Over the years I've tried hard to watch motorcycle racing, heck I've even ridden a motorcycle to work and back for ~5 years so I understand a bit about the amazing skill these riders have, but the racing usually doesn't excite me because it is too easy, in many cases, to pass.

The drama with a pass is not there, ie. the many laps behind learning the other driver/car/rider/bikes weakness and strengths, then the first few attempts, the blocking and finally the awesome move and the work required to maintain the new position.

A pass as we used to see in F1, but is now often confined to club racing where due to small budgets and drivers paying for repairs themselves the pass has to be executed properly (unlike Aussie V8 Supercars where they just bash the car in front out of the way), is a beautiful thing full of drama and excitement that is thrilling.

F1 lost most of this when some dickhead, probably Bernie, came up with the DRS idea. A pass became as easy as passing somebody on a multi-lane freeway ... I was pissed.

One of the best races ever was the 1981 Spanish GP where Gilles won with 4 faster cars behind him unable to pass. Gilles didn't weave or block but drove perfectly and placed the car perfectly for the whole race (as he was in the lead by the end of the first lap). Wonderful drama of will he make a mistake, will somebody be desperate or otherwise make it past, etc.

It is NOT passing that makes racing great, it is the drama around a pass. Take away the drama and even if we had 400+ passes a race it would still be boring.


For motorsport to be great entertainment you need:
1. Cars worth watching. A lot don't watch NASCAR because the technology or track type does not interest them ... but they do sound good. Lots of passing and close racing, and yes who is going to win is definitely not a forgone conclusion ...

2. Tracks that demonstrate the skill involved to the humble spectator. Now driving on an oval is not easy. I remember Nigel Mansell having to get used to it when he moved to CART and all of a sudden for a few months I was interested, but from the average spectators point of view it is seemingly easy and boring to watch.

3. Sound or something must cause adrenaline. I remember going to Eastern Creek in Sydney with my very young kids and we had seats on the front straight but too far back. The kids were bored sick ... then they went to get snacks with their mum and that got them very close to the track and cars zoomed by real fast ... that woke them up and for a few seconds they were captivated. Lesson learnt, we never sat in that spot again

4. The result must not be a forgone conclusion. Whether this involves passing or not there has to be some suspense.

5. Something you have a connection with. If you did not give a stuff which car or driver won you would not watch. This is why I thought the A1GP series was going to work as it was fun to watch supporting your country. Heck that is why many bore themselves to sleep watching cricket, isn't it? I watch F1 to see how Ferrari go, and yes McLaren (being a NZ'er). During the early years of MS, I watched to see his talent ...

Conclusion: it is a complex formula and it is not just lack of sound that is hurting F1 (and other formula such as v8 Supercars), but boring overly safe and flat modern tracks, results that are known in advance also thanks to cars that are as reliable as a Toyota, stupid tyre formula (in previous years) that killed the drama in passing and I guess the method of controlling fuel via fuel flow.

Pete
ps: Over the years Bernie has really seriously fncked it up while lining his pockets ... and now he wants us to remember him as some motorracing god, FNCK no!

And yes I am aware that the FIA set the rules, but Bernie would have been nagging them constantly making comments about viewer numbers declining, etc. In real sport this just happens and you have a few boring games ...

 

Are you joking ??!!

They had an extra year of free development, picking the eyes out of the other manufacturers ideas (typical of them) and then no restrictions on testing their engine with no limit to the changes they could make and they STILL ****ed it up !!!

Honda ?

I wouldn't buy one of their lawnmowers

 

If you happen to own a Victa lawnmower, this comment of yours is the funniest thing ever said on the internet ... lol

Non-Australians won't get this joke, but Victa invented the lawnmower (?) and unfortunately over the years has become synonymous with junk.
Pete

 

Oi !!

I love cricket but F1 is #1 for my family

 

I don't own a lawnmower ..... that's for the hired help

Do you Kiwis use scissors ?

 

I have , but now have some electric thing but it works.

My father just before retirement ran a lawn mover repair place and if somebody walked in with a Victa he would simply say, why bother ... lol
Pete

 

Exactly, all great points. Why are we even arguing over this? The elements that make racing exciting are not unknown. We've been doing this for a long time now.

-F

 

There has to be something... a draw... that at least momentarily catches someone's interest. My daughter is by no means a racing fan. She's bookworm. But she was captivated by them coming down the straight with that scream of the V8's. That unique sound caught her attention... F1 had her attention as an teenager, then lost it. I'm not saying she'd be an uber fan or anything, but she would sit and watch some races with me or at least check in. Not anymore. But it's funny... I remember coming to me not long after we watched together for the first time and she brought over her laptop and showed me the video of them playing God Save the Queen (I think that was the song) using the cars engine revs which means she was interested enough to even do some googling about it.

She still talks to me about MotoGp and will ask and still watch a race with me now and then when she's home. Same sort of thing... she walked by and saw Marc Marquez dragging his elbows and was blown away by what she saw happing.

If F1 becomes solely an excuse or industry for manufacturers to push their own ideas for road cars then F1 is no longer really about racing... it's something else. Brand loyalty is secondary to action in the realm of making something work (again.. MotoGP). I think sports fans would much rather see 10 or 12 independent teams racing.. for real... in really obnoxious high end F cars than having car companies run the sport the way it is now.

 

Mika and Fernando put up some decent fights against Michael.

Good news !
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-agrees-plan-for-cheaper-and-noisier-engines-888644/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=weekly_edition&utm_campaign=newsletter_2017-04-04