Gotta enlarge this a bit. And, Freeman, the 'solder' must have been a figment of my imagination! Image Unavailable, Please Login
great pictures Coop, well done. Can you say from what material the strip was made... stainless steel, brass chrome...or...???
Thanks Matthias, I'll give you a description, but I don't know what the material is. I do know that my original assessment of spring steel is not correct. Initially, the band wanted to spring back to it's unloaded arc when a gentle attempt was made to flatten it out. However, when I gradually apply more pressure by hand, I can straighten a small section at a time. The clip, band and pin at the end do not attract a magnet. I would not rule out stainless or plated brass. The band is half-round in cross-section and...hey, wait just a minute! Rob, in post #97, and Paul, in post #157, seem to have identified the material, described the shape and developed a process to replicate the band. Let's get back with them and see if either have a viable option for us. So, it seems that we only need to crack the code on the little clip. That should be fairly straightforward. Cheers, Coop
Making the center clip is not a big deal as it can easily be drawn and laser cut. For sure the volumes would be tiny so the unit price may be a little pricey for what it is (I suspect $15-20 each). As for the band while we have identified the material and production method the big problem comes in both the cost of getting material milled down (again in small volumes) and then the time in hand shaping and fitting each metal trim to a door pocket. Yes doing 10 of them in a row does not take 10x the time of doing one but shaping and fitting is easily 2 hours (if not more) per pocket without considering that you need to shape, then nickle plate (an outside process with the transport and management that goes with it), and then fit the strip. Add on getting FIAT pockets from Italy and assuming the liability of them not being perfect (which is an almost 100% certainty) and all of the other pieces associated with the project and you will quickly see how the final part price will skyrocket to just break even. I think this project is best left to the DIY guy with this thread acting as an excellent resource for all of the info and sources needed to get the job done.
Guys although my door pockets are in good shape I decided to take a punt and purchased a set from Italy, happy to report they are perfect and match the 246 pockets in size, shape and finish. Nobody would tell the difference imo. Obviously they have no insert so I looked for another solution to the metal trim and found this product made from brass, its half round and fits the groove perfectly. Its also very cheap and requires no expensive milling machines. https://www.ekpsupplies.com/2mm-half-round-brass-beading-4-coil.html I am sure the USA does similar things, I purchased the 1/8" HR bar, they also do the tiny rivets which should mimic the pins used on the ends. The metal clip was easy to make so it just leaves getting the brass strip nickel plated before fitting. £20 for the door pockets, £5 for the metal strip and a polite request from the platers to do a small items yields a cheap pair of standby door pockets near identical to the original and all for about £40 the pair.
The brass trim is very easy to find here in the US - jewelry suppliers sell it as 8 gauge dead soft or medium soft brass half-round. Also as you found, it's a common item for scale modelers replicating the brass trim on locomotives, although for some reason more common in the UK than the US. I bought a 10 foot coil of the stuff for next to nothing, spent an hour or so bending it to fit, and sent it off to be nickel plated. I also had the center clips laser cut from thin sheet brass. That was a bit more expensive because of the setup costs, but not bad. I need to figure out a solution for installing the pins on the ends; I'll report back with pictures once I'm done.
Chris the original thread you quoted is from 2010! If you take the time to read the recent posts it is obvious that a perfect pre-made pocket has been sourced for 1/10th of what our original cost would have been. The only thing left to source is the metal strip of which there are some good leads already posted. Looks like this one is pretty much sorted. As for Paul and I, we are happy to supply some tech info but are out of the project and not putting together any kind of 'list' of interested buyers. After almost 7 years to us this project is good and dead.
I've successfully fabricated and installed the trim for the door pockets. Some photos and information the rest of you might find helpful... The trim is "dead soft" 8 gauge half round red brass. You can find it from jewelry suppliers on line in 10-100 foot coils. It's not difficult to form, if you get unwanted bends in it, very light working with a copper or rawhide faced hammer, using a cloth between the hammer and the surface, will smooth it out. I formed the trim over the door pockets; as long as you're careful you should be fine. I ended up with a reverse curve in the center to keep tension on the trim - you can see the basic form in the photo below, without the full curve yet. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I had the center clips laser-cut from thin sheet brass - basically a plus sign with the vertical longer than the horizontal, the verticals bent 90 degrees to the horizontal. I made up some extra in case I screwed anything up. I then sent the clips and the formed trim to be nickel plated. You don't want to form too much after plating, or it will crack. Here's what came back: Image Unavailable, Please Login
Attaching the trim wasn't nearly as hard as I thought it would be, as long as you're careful. Find the center of the valley where the trim's going to sit, and drill a small hole. Carefully widen the hole until it's rectangular, with the top and bottom barely exceeding the height of the valley, just enough for the clip wings to drop through. I then rounded the edge of the door pocket where the valley ends, so the trim could bend around the edge of the pocket without bulging or kinking. With that done, I set the trim in the valley, pushed the clip on, drew the legs through, and bent them back. I didn't bother with the 90 degree twist that was originally done - just didn't see the need. I also didn't bother nailing the trim to the pocket at the edge. Like the forward pass in football, I figured 5 things could happen, 4 of them bad. Instead, since the brass is soft, I bent it around the edge. Holds like a champ. Here are some photos of the trim mounting process and the final result. I'm quite happy with it. Bottom line - with the door pocket reproductions from Italy, you can get a nice original look. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Ha - too much tedious work forming the brass. I don't want to have to do that again . I just finished installing the pockets, picture below. The pockets come with four metal studs, and you need to cut off two of them because they don't have mount points on the door frames (at least my doors don't). Image Unavailable, Please Login
Mark wonderful work and thank you for documenting it. You are correct in needing to cut off the 2 studs (original pockets are like this). I know exactly where you are coming from in the work department. Those pesky strips are very time consuming to get right. At least with this thread the information exists for pockets to be accurately replicated to concours perfect standards.
Jon, evidently it is quite a chore. If you like I can order a small coil and make them. After all, we have made some ambitious parts before, right? The only two things we cannot do, and you would have to handle, are the nickel plating and the center clips laser-cut. If you are interested, let me know. Regards, Alberto
