75th anniversary of Doolittle Raid - April 18 | FerrariChat

75th anniversary of Doolittle Raid - April 18

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by Thomas Magnum, Apr 18, 2017.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Thomas Magnum

    Thomas Magnum F1 Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2013
    Messages:
    8,082
    Full Name:
    Mark
  2. westextifosi

    westextifosi Formula Junior Rossa Subscribed

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2009
    Messages:
    274
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX
    Full Name:
    Tex Timberlake
  3. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
    Messages:
    26,056
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    Full Name:
    Tom C
    +1

    The film of those guys thing off the deck of the carrier (the Hornet IIRC) in those huge planes is one of the most epic things I've seen. I recall that they got good luck in that there was a heavy wind (20 - 30 knots?) and they were able to head straight into it, which helped the B-25s get airborne.

    Major respect to those gents. According to Wiki only one left "Col. Richard E. Cole, copilot of aircraft No. 1 (age 101)." I don't know where Col. Cole is today, but I hope he's having a great day!…T
     
  4. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    Messages:
    39,169
    Location:
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    He is in Comfort, TX.
     
  5. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
    Messages:
    26,056
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    Full Name:
    Tom C

    Thanks, Taz.

    If anyone has a few min to spare, this is an impressive few min of film (no sound). Planes start taking off around 1:30 mark. I never cease to be amazed that they pulled this off.

    https://youtu.be/NPGq7IYQHCM

    T
     
  6. Dom

    Dom F1 Veteran Owner

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2002
    Messages:
    8,489
    Agreed.

    I got to check out a B-25 last weekend at the Lyon Museum in Orange County. An amazing story (told to us by a 92 year old veteran at the museum).

    True hero's.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  7. Thomas Magnum

    Thomas Magnum F1 Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2013
    Messages:
    8,082
    Full Name:
    Mark
  8. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
    Messages:
    26,056
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    Full Name:
    Tom C
  9. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran Consultant

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Messages:
    8,017
    Location:
    Shoreline,Washington
    Full Name:
    Robert Parks
    I am certain that there was no thought about not accepting this mission or any thoughts about not surviving it. That mental attitude has never changed in any war that our guys have been engaged in. WWII, Korea, Afghanistan, Civil War. Doolittle and his crew knew that they could and would do it and entertained nothing else but completing the mission. There was no control over what would eventually happen after the mission so that would be faced after completion. Taz knows this.
     
  10. Thomas Magnum

    Thomas Magnum F1 Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2013
    Messages:
    8,082
    Full Name:
    Mark
    As I understand it, other than Doolittle, the men didn't know what they volunteered for except it was dangerous, had never been tried, but would be a response to Pearl Harbor. Men like Jacob DeShazer, Bombardier on # 16, just wanted vengeance against Japan. His amazing story is worth a look. After three years as a Japanese prisoner following the Raid, he returned to Japan and spent 25 years there as a missionary. One of his converts, Mitsuo Fuchida, actually led the attack on Pearl Harbor and radioed back the famous line, "Tora Tora Tora." "Tiger Tiger Tiger, we've achieved total surprise."

    God works in mysterious ways!
     
  11. alexm

    alexm F1 Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2004
    Messages:
    5,223
    Location:
    Coast up from Sydney
    Full Name:
    Alex
    I'm not clear on how the logistics worked for that.. opening scenes deck is full of planes tied down.. then scenes of plane after plane taking off from clear deck!

    Where did they go? I can only think below deck.. but the wings don't fold? Or if fit in elevator why not just have them down below in the first place? How did they get onto the deck like that in the first place? Crane? or..

    Just asking.. as I don't know what is normal practice in any event..
     
  12. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
    Messages:
    26,056
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    Full Name:
    Tom C
    ^ It is my understanding that all 16 were tied down to the deck of the Hornet...T
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  13. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    4,739
    Location:
    Denver, Albuquerque
    Noting about this was 'normal practice'...never been attempted before.

    They were craned onto the very rear of the deck of the Hornet in Norfolk, VA, and tied down.
    They stayed right there until they took off.
    The back row of planes' tails cantilevered beyond the deck edge... over the open sea.

    They took off in the front 2/3 of the deck as the carrier steamed directly into the wind.

    Took off aft to bow.
    So the last couple of planes had the entire deck to take off.

    They could not go below deck, would not fit on the elevators, so they were all on deck and buttoned-up; engine covers, etc.

    They did not fly in formation, they flew singly toward Japan, straight off the end of the deck; they barely had enough fuel to get to Japan, much less China, having to take off 10 hours too early.


    BTW, my Dad's college roommate was on the raid; he was one of the few KIA.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  14. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
    Messages:
    26,056
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    Full Name:
    Tom C
    In the YouTube video that I posted, the earliest part is the Navy shooting at a Japanese trawler which spotted them, which was the motivation for the early take off. ..T
     
  15. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ Rossa Subscribed

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2008
    Messages:
    106,140
    Location:
    Vegas baby
    Probably the closest we got to a suicide mission. You have to understand that they were defenseless. Their only defence was secrecy because all of them would have been shot down long before reaching Japan if the Japanese found out they were coming.

    The men leaving the deck that day had no idea what they were flying into. As far as they knew, it was an ambush.

    It looks easy today because by-in large, the mission was successful. The planes bombed their targets and the US got a huge moral PR boost just months after Pearl Harbor. And, the Japanese realized they had to protect the homeland which caused them to spend huge resources that could have been better used in prosecuting the war.

    But if it failed these guys and their mission would have just disappeared from the news until after the war. NO WAY the USA could have tried this and failed and the government would have announced it to the public. They would simple be lost in some "training mission".
     
  16. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    4,739
    Location:
    Denver, Albuquerque
    This took place only 4 months after Pearl Harbor... showing their military and civilians that we were to be reckoned with. (Showing our military and civilians the same thing!)

    And only 2 months after Doolittle, was the Battle of Midway (6 months after Pearl) that was the end of the Japanese offensive, we sunk 4 of their carriers. Critical blow.
     
  17. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran Consultant

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Messages:
    8,017
    Location:
    Shoreline,Washington
    Full Name:
    Robert Parks
    Guadalcanal and Midway were magical victories that came at a time when they were the most effective. Incredible luck, persistence, dedication, selflessness, and bravery all came together. I have known men who were in both actions.
     
  18. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
    Messages:
    26,056
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    Full Name:
    Tom C

    Indeed. I read that the B-25s were stripped of many of their armaments and such to make them as lightweight as possibly, for maximizing range and getting off the Hornet, I would assume.
    T
     
  19. Thomas Magnum

    Thomas Magnum F1 Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2013
    Messages:
    8,082
    Full Name:
    Mark
    They were not defenseless. From Wikipedia:

    At least one Japanese fighter was shot down by the gunners of the Whirling Dervish, piloted by 1st Lt. Harold Watson. Two other fighters were shot down by the gunners of the Hari Kari-er, piloted by 1st Lt. Ross Greening. Many military targets were strafed by the bombers' nose gunners. The subterfuge of the simulated gun barrels mounted in the tail cones was described afterwards by Doolittle as effective, in that no airplane was attacked from directly behind.
     
  20. Fave

    Fave F1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    4,157
    Location:
    Tarana
    Full Name:
    L. Ike Hunt
    I am amazed they got enough airspeed to take off. Would they have been able to without the head winds?
     
  21. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2014
    Messages:
    26,056
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    Full Name:
    Tom C

    In one interview that I saw, Doolittle said that their fears were early discovery and a dead calm.
    T
     
  22. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2004
    Messages:
    37,099
    Location:
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Norfolk was only used for the 2 trial planes as a test. The entire group transitioned to NAS Alameda (Dolittles home town BTW) and loaded by different reports either at NAS Alameda or San Francisco. I suspect it was NAS Alameda because SF I do not believe had facilities and we all know the eastern news media has no idea where Alameda is.
     
  23. Fave

    Fave F1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    4,157
    Location:
    Tarana
    Full Name:
    L. Ike Hunt


    Sums it up. Balls of steel they had.
     
  24. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ Silver Subscribed

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    16,461
    Location:
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Jim Pernikoff
    A bit O/T, but today's anniversary (4/19) is of the "shot heard 'round the world" as the American Revolution started with the battles of Lexington and Concord in 1775.
     
  25. norcal2

    norcal2 F1 Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,815
    Location:
    Sierra Nevada Triangle
    I watched a special on one of the tv channels a while ago (Perhaps the Military) they went over the execution of 3 of the Americans shot down, and how this raid led to the execution of few hundred thousand innocent Chinese, the Japanese had thought the planes came from a base in China, and deployed resources there as a result...which took pressure off of the allies..and led to subsequent actions by the Japanese that led to their downfall...
     

Share This Page