I started this thread based on the fact that I knew we could have some fun based on the rich teenager's antics. However, he finished the race. That's progress. Now perhaps he can go for the points.
Well then go ahead and add 25 sec to the gap makes 45 sec. Assuming fresher tyres count for 0.5 sec a lap makes it a perhaps more reasonable guess that the gap would have been 40 sec without Massa's pit stop. That's still pretty much the same as Hamilton had. And in comparison to Massa and Hamilton, Stroll never had the chance to drive, he was stuck the entire race behind other cars. So that can count as a decent finish and a decent finish to built on for him.
At least Stroll is more compliant with the Blue Flags than Massa. Vettel was very generous when asked about Massa's clumsiness. As much as I like Massa he should have stayed retired. Brazil had a perfect poetry in dropping the final curtain on his decent career. His move back from 5 minutes retirement whiffs of selling out.
Massa says he did not block 'afraid' Vettel in Russian F1 GP - F1 - Autosport Vettel has zero to complain about. He lost at turn 1. Period. He admits it as well. https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/amazing-first-stint-won-bottas-the-race-vettel-900377/?s=1
"He could have lifted in Turn 3 and let me drive around the outside," said Vettel. On screen it looked like Massa was being somewhat clumsy. On balance Vettel needs to toughen up and start doing a Max with his passing moves.
To be honest, I don't see what Massa did wrong. He let Vettel pass at the earliest opportunity. What was he supposed to do: jump out of the track ? I think this Blue Flag lark is getting out of hand.
IMO - yes; he should have jumped out of the way. He had 8 secs between him and the next position. Losing several tenths would cost him nothing. Instead he impacted a race he wasn't even in...
+1 It ruined the ending of a great battle...would Vettel have passed him? Well it was unlikely but he was so bloody close (closest he's been, under 7 tenths), whose to say Bottas didn't make another mistake, or Vettel had extra charge saved for the 2nd straight and make a move in the final corner (where the Ferrari was quicker)? It's sportsmanship. Looking at the rules Massa was correct, he didn't HAVE to let Vettel go immediately (can pass 3 blue flags), but like you said, he was 8 seconds behind his opposition and far ahead of the rest...he wouldn't have lost anything moving completely off track (and he was at the perfect place for it, as there is the specific run off that's always discussed for this track). Had it been the other way round, Massa also wouldn't be happy. He's been in the same position before and people moved out of the way, and also when they didn't. I'm sure he was pleased when they did and upset when they didn't!
"I don't see it that way." Agreed. Blocking one should not do. I saw no blocking by Stroll nor Massa. It is, however, the passer's responsibility to get their arses by, The passee should maintain their line. Basic racing. Should he have bowed and pointed the way for Vwettel too? Simply put....F that sheet!!! Talk about Alonso being a whiner.....I'm hoping this is a one-off whine by Vettel.
Blocking a leader as a backmarker would be moronic. What you call basic racing has not been the case in F1 (and most other series) for quite some time in reality. It's the norm for backmarkers to try to accommodate people actually in the race for the win. Yah ok...well like I said, there was a race going on and he wasn't in it. It's just common courtesy. Karma's a *****. If he was fighting for position, or trying to maintain a gap, then by all means, keep pushing. Neither was the case here. Despite what you write, there are certainly places where you simply cannot pass, so if you get unlucky, then you do need backmarkers to get out of the way. This is the perfect example. Massa gained nothing, and had nothing to lose by getting out of the way.
Yah I don't know if he would have gotten by, but he would have been able to apply some pressure certainly. It's obvious it was intentional from Massa, and that Massa has some kind of a bone to pick with Vettel based on his response. That's fine - people can race however they want, but it will certainly impact how others treat them on track.
'Quite apparent you don't have racing in your blood. I suggest you rent Grand prix, Le Mans, Days of Thunder, Rush, and that other fictional thing with Stallone to get your immediate satisfaction excitement soap opera fix. Today I saw good racing by everyone (ceptin' Grosjean); drivers, strategy, teams, and execution.
LOL. My life is dedicated to two things currently - family and racing. Quite apparent you do all your racing behind a keyboard. Vroom vroom.
Maybe you have forgotten 1997, it's happened before when MS and JV were fighting for the title and the pommy teams were sending radio messages about a "friendly" (JV) coming from behind and not to block but the situation was not the same for MS So yes, he should have got out of the way just like Kvyat did when he was being lapped. I don't think SV would have got past VB
Massa should have just got out of the way,maybe this was his thank you to Bottas to allow him to make a comeback? I can't recall any 'previous' between Seb n Massa but that also would not surprise me ...payback time. Stroll , yeh he spun it on the kerb,anyhow he recovered and managed to bring it home.Hope he can build on that.He will be back on familiar tracks next races and that car is seriously fast,so can expect some points finishes next.
Significance of that statement? What has a decision by drivers/teams twenty years ago to do with what "we" think drivers/teams "should" do, now, in the past, or in the future?
Dedication and , ummm, let's say passion, are significantly different things. Whilst making my self (vastly under) funded efforts I met many "dedicated" that just didn't have the enthusiasm yet did appear to be dedicated to the cause. ('not implying you.....yet ) 'Could tell by what they knew and what they didn't know; what they talked about, actions on the track...that the racing passion wasn't there. It was more just "dedication" to something they wanted to do. Sorta like my "dedication" to shooting pool (pocket billiards). I'm pretty good (how much you wanna play for?), and always learning, but the passion isn't there that I would call having it be "in my blood". 'Don't race at all. My running, bicycling, slot car, running, bicycling, local club, SCCA, IMSA, ROAR (R/C car racing) days are long over. 'Retired and old....'satiate my competitive appetite with the aforementioned pool shooting. 'Never got into video racing games even...(the real, 1/12 scale ni-cad and 1/8 gas R/C cars were far more fulfilling) You know where you can put (stick?) your "Vroom vroom". Or, am I mistaken and that's actually a plug for Mazda? I'll PM you.
Would have made no difference, Vettel was not going to win. Catching somebody is very different to actually passing. Now if 5 laps earlier, sure maybe Vettel might have won but it was too late. Pete
Chris races single seaters in real life, Think he knows what he's talking about . Again I repeat my earlier comments. Massa didn't block as such, but he stuck on the racing line. Vettel lost around a second there already. It was unnecessary. Within the rules, indeed, but lacking sportsmanship and you know it. It's unlikely to happen, but what if the roles are reversed at some point this season...Vettel a lap down, Massa chasing 3rd place man whoever, on the last lap....and Vettel ''returns the favour''. Massa loses out on podium or win because of this, or the oppertunity of one anyhow. Racing drivers remember such things, drivers being lapped that aren't interfering will find themselves similarly luck later on in their career when the roles are reserved. Matter of fact that is.
Seb hesitated and Massa and the press pointed that out. Vettel has moved on and knows he didnt make a pass on Massa because he wasnt sure what Massa would do. Thats on Seb. End of. This was a race he lost at the start and has stated so multiple times. Want to win Seb, then pass the back markers with authority. Complaining wont change anything. One of the things about Vettel is his complaining. He needs to just get it done.
I agree that there was no deliberate blocking from either Massa or Stroll, but neither driver got out of the way of Vettel in the manner required under Article 27.9 of The Sporting Regulations (See below) WRONG! - You obviously don't know your F1 Sporting regulations! Article 27.9 of The Sporting Regulations specifically states: 27) DRIVING 27.9 As soon as a car is caught by another car which is about to lap it during the race the driver must allow the faster driver past at the first available opportunity. If the driver who has been caught does not allow the faster driver past, waved blue flags will be shown to indicate that he must allow the following driver to overtake. The regulation makes it clear that it is the responsibility of the driver of the car being lapped to ensure that they allow the faster car to overtake them as soon as possible, and not hinder the faster cars progress, and not the responsibility of the lapping driver " to get their arses by". There is also nothing in the regulation that states that the car being lapped should maintain their line. That is a judgement call to be made by the driver being lapped. If it makes more sense to maintain their line in order to assist the lapping car then they will. By the same token, if it makes more sense for them to go off line to assist the lapping car, then they will do that instead. Most times the drivers work this all out without issue, but on some occasions, drivers get it wrong and accidentally get in the way without meaning to. Blue flags being waved at a lapped driver is actually a sign that that driver has already failed to comply correctly with Article 27.9, but they are given the benefit of the doubt and are allowed three opportunities to comply with the regulation (three consecutive waved blue flags), after which they will receive a penalty. To the letter of Article 27.9: "As soon as a car is caught by another car which is about to lap it during the race the driver must allow the faster driver past at the first available opportunity" - Neither Stroll or Massa complied correctly.
