In the above pic car looks massive, with odd mix of shapes.... One more thing: official Fiorano lap times are mostly BS, in effect they mean almost nothing with respect to performance. F12 did not have enough tire to handle 730 hp, not sure how 812 will deploy even more but without a lot more mechanical grip (rear tire size) will be interesting to see how it will do.....
Was curious about why you feel that the Fiorano laps times are meaningless? Is it the course? Or other variables such as weather driver tires? Or do you doubt the accuracy--that Ferrari is fudging the numbers to suit their agenda?
Spot on. Amazing how everyone automatically says the 812 will drive better. So everyone has a race track in the backyard? 98% of the driving occuring is on slow traffic pothole roads where I really doubt a difference can be 'feeled' out. Aesthetic beauty always trumps useless statistics such as 'track times' and horsepower. The 812 is simply ugly. On that fact alone the rest of it doesn't matter. Its not a 'subjective' thing. The guy saying beauty is in the eyes of the beholder is usually wearing shorts and a walmart tshirt out in public. Simply put, one can argue American mentality has destroyed everything beautiful in this world. The second Ferrari as a corporation became fully Americanized(the previous management was taking it towards that inevitable stage) we start getting 812's. Beauty means order. Everything in its correct place with balanced proportions. A 5 year old is more honest in determining what is beautiful these days than all these 'subjective' individualistic ideologues. There is no order in the 812 design because nothing fits together. Like talk about style for the sake of style. Logos has to exist in car design for it to be timeless. 812 is just about pushing something out the door for accounting purposes. A marketing campaign that makes no sense '12th dimension', tacky styling to suit the nouveau-rich crowd that will be buying up the higher volumes.
I agree that it depends on how you are using your car. What your street is. Although I live on the outskirts of Los Angeles, my daily drive is along a road which has no traffic lights, full of nice straights and twists bits too. I am usually the only car on the road. Its a fantastic 30 minutes of driving, twice a day. If I had to drive in a city clogged with traffic lights and traffic, I wouldnt drive a Ferrari. Wrong tool for that job. So for you, youre right. I agree. The lap times are meaningless.
Nice shot. Which wheel do you like. This car has the standard cast (?) The show cars all had the forged.
this is actually the first time i agree with you. 812 is ugly. the lines are too convoluted for the so called aero dynamic purpose but the overall design is inferior to f12 ( by the way i love tdf's design the most and think they did a great job improving the weakness of f12, not perfect but better) the rear end is definitely overly complicated but the part that bugs me the most is the soft curvy lines on the doors. it is neither aggressive nor elegant. it is ugly imo.
Ferrari fudges numbers - that's what I meant. Fiorano lap times as well as curb weights are notoriously off - way off reality almost all the time. Check independent tests if it matters to you. Best.
I can't wait for F12 owners to start dumping for an 812S so I can swoop in and buy one for 200k. Any day now...
And ... the feel of that wheel, the clunky turn indicators from the Lusso ... truly uncool. Subtlety is a big part of taste. RACE is not showing subtly. Works with TDF, not Lusso or 812.
I like the design of the TDF too. A lot. But it is hardly subtle as you say! Here is the definition when it deals with design: "a change or distinction so delicate or precise as to be difficult to analyze or describe." The pronounced black strip on the front quarter panel, the three large vents on the rear quarter panel, the over sized carbon boxes around the exhausts pipes. Most of the design language is an exaggeration rather than an understatement. But I like it. It's hardly subtle though (No offense intended)
Hey no worries, everyone gets an a'hole, I mean opinion Visual artistry is not something words convey. And that definition is dumb if they did. The 812 looks like an elephant is sitting on the windshield, bending it down at the front wheels. Similar swoop to the little BMW 128 in the first design, that they've corrected in the new version. The rear end is a just ugly. Like the Lusso it's a visual whore, selling itself at every angle for a compliment. We tend to like the look of whores, so there you go. But you don't marry one.
I found the FF a pig ugly car, and the F12 rear end far from pretty at first view, even if I got used to it. Still prefer the 599 , though it was rather oversized. TDF is very dramatic, and just seems to work well . The same for La F , another car I really like. Lusso improves on the FF too, which was not hard. Having seen the 812 a few times live, and now on the road, it has grown on me too, still prefer TDF, but in my eyes find 812 and F12 of similar appeal, both having good and bad bits, but the overall design of 812 appeals greatly. We all have different interpretations of what we like.
Well I do disagree. I had / or drove all of the italian and british stallions.( No i dont like Porsche anymore. They focused on high volume. Their is no more soul to the car. That´s why iI changed my Turbo against a Ferrari 550 long time ago) Aston Martin; beautifull styling but to heavy for its power and rather poor handling. Lamborghini; from looks the 12 cylinders are just awesome. For every day driving no way. Furthermore the space inside for a 6.6 feet guy is just frightening. Ferrari could use a little more agressive look. But for every day driving, city and freeways nothing comes close to it. And in Germany we do have freeways were you can go for it. So you can tell about driveabillity. Close to my place ist a test track were all of the major brands do their testing. Sometimes its open to clubs and we really go for it.
Anyone else think the plastic (or carbon for money) ugly after thought exhaust surrounds premiered on TDF and now featuring on 812 are a lazy after thought design feature. Shame not integrated any more.
STR does the front and rear bumpers as well as side skirt trim for most Ferrari models. Many of these bumpers are pretty complex in terms of shape geometries as well as multi piece designs. Not to mention the use of more advanced plastics. The design of the front bumper for the 360 is simple compared to the 458 with its more extreme shape. Also the newer bumpers such as for the 458 use polypropylene material which has greater ability to deform and resist cracking and other failures. Getting to the point about the plastic exhaust surrounds, one option is to go carbon. And probably do not just the rear bumper but also the front insert and the rocker panels. But if you don't want to spend a small fortune, I bet you could get these plastic pieces painted another color, matte or glossy. I bet STR paints all of these pieces anyway. Acrylic monomers such propylene, and methyl methacrylates are colorless. So they are either filled with pigment/ dyes prior to polymerization or else painted afterwards
It's the worst part of the TDFs generally cool and well integrated exterior. Looks like old balls hanging low. The 812 around the exhaust is not as offensive as the Corvette LEDs and the spoiler that becomes a fender. Uni-brow anyone? Mouth of a bass rear end?
When I first saw the pictures of the f12 I was in love with it. It was beautiful to me. Since I've seen pics of the 812, I've been trying to like it and hoping it will grow on me. But the more I see the 812 pics, the more I like my f12. Maybe my mind will change when I see the car in person. But I'm also in the minority...I think the ff is beautiful. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I understand your dislike of these elements. I naturally prefer a more refined look too. But I think they did a very good job on the TDF and also on these elements on the 812. I disagree that its lazy though. I am sure they spent a lot of time and effort working out the best way to incorporate these features. I think some of this is a stylistic decision, and that is really one of those things about fashions of the current time we live. It seems the trend in modern design is to be more and more aggressive. So, at least to how I see it, this is just a continuation of the trend. Good or bad will be in the eye of the beholder, but I don't think we can say lazy. I think MalibuGuy made a very interesting and informative post. My 2 cents on style is I would either go with CF elements or keep them the standard grayish color, unless maybe on a black car. I think going body color will just accentuate the mass of the car. I will like to come back to the discussion of 812's styling in a few years and see if we've shifted our opinions.
Probably...Lol. Don't get me wrong, I'll most definitely order an 812. But just don't have that feeling of "Love" for the design just yet!
The soul is still there with the higher-end and more limited production cars. It's like they're made by a different company.
Its hard to beat timeless elegance and sharpness of F12 Berlinetta https://500px.com/photo/37128354/ferrari-f12-berlinetta-argento-n%C3%BCrburgring-by-chensan-by-chensan
