The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread | Page 405 | FerrariChat

The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by El Wayne, Nov 1, 2003.

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  1. gablet

    gablet Karting

    Jan 27, 2007
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    Gabriele Longoni

    What if Ing.Forghieri signed that letter for Mr.G after just an external and partial examination to the car and then, after he saw pictures and data given to him by Steve understood what the truth was? After all almost 50 years have passed since that early '67 events and even him needed some image/information more to help his memory.
    Just my opinion.
     
  2. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy F1 Rookie

    Apr 5, 2010
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    What if indeed, doesn't make the statements any less contradictory and thats the root of the problem.
     
  3. PAUL500

    PAUL500 F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2013
    3,136
    Agree with Timmy above, but it must be noted that the title of the more appropriate location for this thread which is being put forward is actually "Recreations and non period rebodies" located within the Vintage section.

    It does seem a more suitable place based on that title, I don't think anyone is proposing lumping it in with Fiero based replicas as such.
     
  4. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    #10104 miurasv, Apr 30, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2017
    The above is what has happened. As I have said here previously, when writing the letters to Mr Glickenhaus in February and March, 2016, I have it in writing from Ing. Forghieri that he had not subjected the car to a technical inspection but only a tourist's glance with the bodywork assembled at Amelia Island a few years ago. Mr Glickenhaus had sent him no documentation. He had already determined in 2014 that the rear part of the chassis was not from #0846 after I had sent him some of pictures of the engine mountings.

    Ing. Forghieri had thought he recognised part of the car he took to Daytona for testing in December, 1966 and therefore the 1967 Daytona winner by the arrangement/layout of the Serpente oil cooler. On learning this, I sent him some pictures of the front of the DP0003 chassis. We exchanged further letters/emails/pictures of DP0003 and Ing. Forghieri did quite a lot of additional research when he was more able with fuller data to make a determination, which is as he has stated in his email to me dated 10th May, 2016.
     
  5. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    #10105 miurasv, Apr 30, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2017
    With additional information/data and further research Ing. Forghieri came to a different conclusion.
     
  6. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
    503
    Mr Forghieri confirms upon a completed documentation in his - own – Italian wording, that the car is a ‘falsa P4’. This is something different than politely signing without documents a prepared text in English, after having met the car in Amelia as a tourist. The statement leaves no question open and is nothing inconsistent or contradictory but a substantiated reconsideration upon the documented facts and to question Mr Forghieri’s statement as 0846’s constructor would be simply bad taste. The car was sold and bought as a DP-build replica and Ferrari confirmed that a 0846 is no more. So, nobody has to prove anything, except those, who claim DP0003 contains original chassis parts. This is no theory but the established facts and is according to the forum rules the base of the tread’s allocation. “Discussion of replicas that are not based on an original Ferrari chassis belongs in the General Automotive Discussion forum”. Not moving supports the unproven claim and instrumentalises the forum (although doesn’t make DP0003 less a replica).
     
    miurasv likes this.
  7. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    #10107 rob lay, May 2, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  8. freestone

    freestone Formula Junior

    Feb 8, 2005
    412
    West Coast USA
    With such an overwhelming amount of evidence against it, Jim can no longer claim to have a reasonable belief it's the real thing. It's either abject denial, willful ignorance or willfully passing a replica off as the real thing.
     
  9. freestone

    freestone Formula Junior

    Feb 8, 2005
    412
    West Coast USA
    The evidence against it seems so compelling that he needs to ayatematically address it or better yet have Ferrari "certify" it - or some other expert - and not just keep asserting.
     
  10. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
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    This is not directed towards you... but is on the same subject. Also, for some reason I can't post a new reply it says my token has expired... so I can only post as a reply for somereason...

    I guess I get a little confused that it seems like people are so hung up on what section this thread goes in and it seems people are in agreement that its more than likely a replica and not the real thing but people are getting pissy about what section the thread is in.

    My opinion... I said it before and Ill say it again... I say keep it ANYWHERE it will get the most views.

    Just because Rob Lay moves the thread to the replica section doesn't mean its not officially a replica. The placement of the thread isn't a "certification" who cares where the thread is.

    I just want the thread visible
     
  11. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
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    gosh... id really love to know his thoughts on the pictures. Ill never know... but sure would love to. Who knows maybe Ill run into him in Monterey this year.
     
  12. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    #10112 miurasv, May 2, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  13. greg246

    greg246 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 2, 2004
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    "piece" might be correct
     
  14. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    It is important to remember that Ing. Forghieri's "falsa P4" email that I posted recently was sent to me by him one year ago. AFTER his email much additional information and pictures of the real 0846 at Daytona 1967 and Le Mans 1967 have been found proving the differences between the real Ferrari 330 P3/P4 0846 and Glickenhaus DP0003.
     
  15. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
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    Nice,

    Some people take the kind of tennacity on this subject as a witch hunt.

    In my opinion it has nothing to do with Jim personally. I can easily understand, and I think the world would understand that based on the information available at the time (more than a decade ago) that his car could have been the real deal.

    But... now after more research... again... more than a decade of research (like the above post)... it turns out to not be the case. I think people would easily understand it and his credibility wouldn't get hurt.

    It might get hurt if you continue on the path after the info comes to light... but time will tell on that one. He has alot of "celeb" power now and has the momentum from the masses.

    I guess Im just left scratching my head. If its really about the love for the cars... and not about the money or the notoriety... whats the big deal?
     
  16. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Texas!
    Ego
     
  17. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    #10117 miurasv, May 3, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Posted on Facebook today. Relentless!!!

    A question for Mr Glickenhaus that Official Mouthpieces Wax and Big Tex could ask him: How does a P4 replica run with a 3 litre F1 engine?
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  18. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
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    OMG... will someone please go on facebook and just write. BULL****. ALL BULL****

    For crying out loud... Seriously!

    So now he has taken steves work and put his own myth to it?

    Is there any evidence to actually back up his claims.

    here... Ill just come out and say it since Jim has been reading and studying steves work.


    You sir... are completely full of ****.
     
  19. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    No evidence at all.

    Why would Ferrari mule 0846 with a 3.0 litre engine after Le Mans 1967 to see how it performed if it had already ran at the preceding 1967 Nurburgring and 1967 Targa Florio events with a 3.0 litre engine, as he also stated in the same Facebook post? They'd have already known how it performed with a 3.0 litre engine wouldn't they.:confused: :confused: :confused: Holes, holes and more holes!!!

    0846 did NOT run at the 1967 Nurburgring event at all and it was never run with a 3.0 litre engine.

    Glickenhaus DP0003 has run at the Nurburgring as a 3.0 litre though, in 2016!!!
     
  20. Vincent Vangool

    Vincent Vangool Formula 3

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    #10120 Vincent Vangool, May 4, 2017
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
    Well, that escalated quickly.

    Carry on.
     
  21. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    This story about the 512s seems like a complete nonsense to me...after the p4, Ferrari went on to build the 312p wich contested in the 69 championship...so how on earth would Ferrari conduct a test in 67 with the wheels of a 1970 car????? If they used a P4 to test some components for the 312p wich run a 3l engine i could still understand but a 512s? This makes absolutly no sense.
     
  22. PAUL500

    PAUL500 F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2013
    3,136
    Why was this post Le Mans claim not included in the letter MF provided Jim?, surely the one man who would have been fully aware of such is the man who was at the helm back then.

    MF makes no mention of a post Le Mans life for the original 0846 anywhere, ever.

    When these fresh claims are made I keep thinking Jim is going to simply pop up at some point waving the clear evidence for all to see and poking his tongue out at the detractors with a big grin on his face........but it never seems to happen?
     
  23. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    More popcorn please!
     
  24. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
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    Ya... Not my best moment. But hey... those were my thoughts at the moment.

    I should have worded it more conservatively and been a little nicer about it...

    Frankly... I have in my mind been giving Jim the benefit of the doubt for so long (not that he asked me too nor does he owe me anything) that when you see such complete nonsense that amounts to what seems to just a clear delusional lie... I don't know... I just lost it.

    It makes no sense as to 512 brakes being fitted to the car. ZERO. They were not even developed for several years. It makes no sense.

    I guess here I have been hoping to see the silver lining of Jims side... and boom... he does that and TO ME... seems like such a calculated spin/response and cover up of the truth that I dont know... I guess it was the straw that broke a heavily heavily stressed back.

    Probably shouldn't have said it.... and I could have said it better.... but in my opinion (bias obviously) what he did was atrocious

    Id love to hear his explination. I wish someone would post on facebook some facts about his car... it would be nice to have some actual factual information about the car he posses. Sad it doesn't come from the owner
     
  25. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
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    Ok... in the interest of being open minded do we know when the chassis made it into the scrap pile? Do we know when allegedly the scrap pile was raided and allegedly the crashed and burnt remains of 0846 possibly removed?
     

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