TDF weight

While out yesterday for a track session, we had an opportunity to weigh the cars (as you do) while waiting for the track to dry out. One of our group's TDF (approx half tank of fuel, no occupants, no luggage) tipped the scales at 1689kg - really? I thought dry weight is 1415kg which might be 1550kg on the scales with 50% fuel + fluids. The car is stock with no weighty options.

We checked the scales using another car of known weight, and was accurate.

Wonder if anyone else has checked out the weight which seems off even accounting for the usual marketing.

No matter, the 770hp made short work of whatever weight it was.

Just curious.

 

Could this extra weight be due to triple layer paint or other interior options (fire exstinguisher, extra thick custom leather etc ?)

For comparison the 812 has a dry weight of 1529 kg. With a similar set up-- half tank of gas and other fluids (excluding power steering fluid)-- how do you think the weight would compare?

 

The 812 gas tank is around 90 liters, so half a tank is 45 liters and if gas weighs .71 kg/liter, then the fuel weight is around 32 kg

The engine oil weighs about 3.3 kg for 4 quarts. How many quarts does the V12 take ? Let's say 18. So that would weigh 15 kg

Coolant weighs 1kg/ liter. How many liters does the V12 require? Maybe 20? That's 20kg

Gearbox and DCT fluids next....needs some help here ....going to estimate 12 liters. Maybe that's around 12 kg

Brake fluid is about 1.5 liter Lets call that 1.5 kg

Washer fluid 5 liter Call that 5 kg

Wet fluids may add around 90-100kg.

Therefore the wet weight of the 812 with a half tank of gas and standard paint and interior could be around 1629 kg

That's less than the TDF in this post.

With more hp and improved handling and aero, the 812 would be a very close rival on the track

Chime in and correct my math and or calculations

 

Your estimates above look sensible, and my ball park was 100-150kg to be conservative, and hence my expectation that the TDF should be around 1550kg given a stated dry weight of 1415kg. The car in question was 140kg heavier.

Which begs the question whether the dry weight is actually that far off the published figure. Wouldn't be the first time, but does make you wonder.

 

seems like your calculations/numbers/logic around fluids weight is close enough

of course, the basic question is whether the quoted dry weight from the factory is correct to begin with....my suspicions are they are likely optimistic

for example, I know OUR car is heavier, as we have all leather, the passenger display, the SatNav, the lifter, floor mats, the front camera, etc etc. So, relative to a stripped down, alcantara clad TDF, ours is probably heavier than average (even with all the CF options, and I mean all, other than we have the leather parcel shelf). I'd guess our triple layer paint is probably worth a few (5?) kilograms. As a US car, unsure how much the US DoT stuff might impact us (i.e. the marker lights, glass if different?)

has anyone put a broken in TDF on a dyno? seems like Ferrari is overoptimistic on dry weights and conservative on engine output.

in terms of weight delta, the biggest piece of ballast in the car is me when i'm driving

 

For the 812, Ferrari claims a dry weight of 1525 and Keri weight of 1630, so the difference between dry and kerb is mathematically accurate based on my math.

You raise a good question about the accuracy of the dry weight. Does 1525 seem reasonable?

Or looking at the TDF dry weight, does 1415 seem plausible.

I think the 812 / F12 dry weight is much more believable than the TDF.

How do you lose 110Kg going from the F12 which doesn't have the added weight of the rear when steering which is found in the TDF.

I believe that the 812 could weight the same as the F12 because it lost weight going to electric front steering assist which would offset the weight gained by the addition of rear wheel steering .

 

We might have an opportunity to do just that next weekend as the cars are all staying over at a shop with a dyno prior to another track outing. As for the ballast, I have prescribed myself a summer of salads....

I think there is some stripping out of interior/insulation etc, and some more CF panels. But as you both say, the dry weight does seem optimistic. The car in question has no heavy weight options e.g stereo, lifter, cameras etc. So I was a little surprised.

 

I recall that in the TDF Ferrari replaced the metal doors with carbon fiber. I think for safety regulations the inner side impact members which are made out of steel still remain.

The weight savings for swapping front quarter and rear quarter panels in aluminum for carbon doesn't save much weight.

Stripping out the carpet and sound insulation may save 10-15 kg.

How much weight does the rear steering gear by ZF add?

 

The front and rear bumpers are CF, on F12 they are plastic

Doors, fenders and quarters (and roof, hatch, et al) are aluminum. Door interiors ARE CF, which does save a lot of weight over the upholstered door cards.

FWIW IF the body panels were CF, it would save a lot of weight actually....but a CF hood and hatch would likely be $40K in parts.

 

It is well known that the factory specs are usually 10% off with respect to official quoted curb weights.

As examples: F12 official curb weight 3600 lbs ish, actual 4000lbs ish; Speciale 3000lbs ish, actual 3250 lbs ish.

Based on F12 real weight of 4000 lbs I would expect the TDF to be 200 lbs less or 3800 lbs range. Sounds right.

 

Thanks! Wind up windows save some weight too!

Ferrari plastic bumpers already cost a small fortune to replace. Think 10-18K (someone hit my rear bumper on my 360, and then backed into my front bumper on my California, and recently
backed into my rear bumper on my 458 spider!)


Bumpers in Carbon? I don't even want to guess.

 

Ferrari lies about weight and power like most companies do. C'mon guys, how old are you

 

The power figures of recent models were proven right on many occasions. So were the performance stats.

 

Purely a guess but I would say 70 pounds.

Image the tdF motor in a car weighing 2800 pounds...

 

I would love to have such an option, mainly for simplicity and precise control.

 

Hi RS,

interesting question raised. I am trying to make my FF as light as reasonably possible and was looking recently at what Ferrari has done to the TdF compared tot the F12 (-110 kg), the Pista compared to the 488 (- 90 kg) and the F8 to the 488 (- 40 kg). Ferrari does not give a lot of info about the weight savings of the TdF compared to the F12, but when I saw the dry weight figure of the TdF compared to the F12 my first thought was 'impossible', what your info more or less underpins. What is also interesting is that the difference between dry weight and kerb weight is 90 kg for the FF and 105 kg for the F12 according to Ferrari. Why this difference? They have the same motor etc. So, this could also imply that the 'official' kerb weight of your TdF is 1520 - and not 1550 as you are suggesting - and indeed is 1520 kg the TdF kerb weight according to ferrari.com. So your car is 170 kg heavier than it 'should be' and not 140. It would be nice if another TdF owner would have his car weighted. Just for the record.

Considering my own project, I think it is hard to come far above a weight reduction of 50 kg. I took a lot of items off and weighted every item individually and indeed some items are heavier than expected (the floor mats for the rear passengers for instance weigh 1,25 kg), but to my surprise swapping the regular leather seats with all options (ventilation, screens in the head rests) for carbon F12 buckets did save only 25 kg or so. I am now at a reduction of 35 kg and am looking for a deal on TdF wheels to come to 50 kg (and to some additional rubber). But I think that will be about it.

Anyways, would be nice to hear from someone about what the real weight savers on the Ferrari cars mentioned are, because I would say that CF parts do not make that much difference if they are normally alu (hood, bumpers). The lexan rear window of the F8 will for sure make a difference as will the titanium conrods and the lightened flywheel, crank and exhaust manifolds, but this is not something for DIY..... Unfortunately.

Best, Wieger