Red Bull in title hunt? Maybe not this year

Renault delays major F1 mid-season engine upgrade - F1 - Autosport

Renault has pushed back its plans to introduce an upgraded Formula 1 engine, as it works to ensure there is no reliability risk as a consequence of changes.

The French car manufacturer had originally talked about the next development step coming around the time of the Canadian Grand Prix in June, as it bids to ramp up performance from its new 2017 concept.

However, with it still having some concerns about the durability of its engines during dyno tests, Renault says it is now working on introducing the step before the end of July.

Renault F1 managing director Cyril Abiteboul told Autosport: "We want to do that before the summer break.

"We want to keep it in sync with the power unit integration, and we want to do that with power unit number three if possible."

 

Sebastian says "when rather than if".


MAY 4, 2017

Vettel tips Barcelona boost for Red Bull



Championship leader Sebastian Vettel has tipped his old team Red Bull to return to the top in formula one.

Currently, the 2017 title looks to be a fight between Ferrari - for whom former Red Bull driver Vettel now races - and Mercedes.

But after the opening four 'flyaway' races, rumours are swirling that a 'B' car in the works by Red Bull could be up to a full second per lap quicker for Barcelona.

"I think it (Spain) will be a very close race between Mercedes and us, and I also hope that Red Bull find some pace," said Vettel, who won all four of his titles for the energy drink owned team.

"There's a lot of rumours around," the German added. "They are a strong team, they know how to build a quick car so I expect it's a question of when rather than if."

 

This year titles are over for them..but they can still win a few races...

 

I think this to be more of a reality for Red Bull. I dont see them winning more than 3, if that, to be honest.

 

Purely speculative but never count them out, the best run team in the business IMO.

 

RB also have a significant aero deficit, the consequence of losing their top aero guys.

Horner said that Newey has been splitting his time between F1 and the Aston car.
They lost their chief aerodynamicist to McLaren couple years ago, Peter Prodromou. RD had signed Prodromou's his right hand man Dan Fallows as well, but Horner convinced him to stay and take over his boss's position (to which RD then took legal action over and which they settled).

So RB have lost more than half of their top aero human resource and it's clearly showing.
Lesson: don't take on road car projects when you have big rules changes coming up.

 

Renault officially delayed engine upgrades today. Red Bull is out unless there's a string of DNF's from Merc/Ferrari.

 

Prodromou left a few years ago, last year Red Bull still had a great car. Wouldn't worry THAT much about it.

 

Aero regulations had been mature and very stable since he left. Engineering organizational strengths and weaknesses really show up when you have to create something completely new. We've seen it time and time again with new reg changes. It's the same anywhere, industry as well as F1.

 

Yap..Prodromou hasn't made big things at Mclaren....despite Boullier Bs the car is still crap...

 

He left in 2014.

 

Pray for rain Red Bull. Pray for rain.

 

lol...."rain-man max"

Last year RB had a good car, this year, with emphasis on aero, IMO Newey should have been more hands on instead of delegating it to others.

 

Exactly.

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MAY 17, 2017

Engine rule changes or Red Bull will quit says Marko



Red Bull could quit formula one if the next set of engine regulations is not significantly better.

That is the warning-shot fired by the energy drink-owned team's top Austrian official Dr Helmut Marko.

Talks have already begun about how to tweak the controversial engine rules for beyond 2020, and Red Bull has some conditions.

Marko told El Confidencial: "The idea is very simple. We want an engine that is 1000hp, with a single standard KERS and battery, and development does not cost more than 15-20 million.

"They should have sound, and allow the driver to make the difference. And independent companies like Ilmor and Cosworth should be able to enter so that we or McLaren can use them if we want," he said.

And if those conditions cannot be met, Marko confirmed that Red Bull might quit F1.

"Yes," he said, "because last year Mercedes would not give us an engine, neither would Ferrari, and Renault was only forced by Ecclestone to give us one.

"We want to have an equal situation where we are not blackmailed by a manufacturer," Marko added.

 

^ yes cannot blame Helmut ,it makes total sense would be great to have Cosworth etc back ,provided they can build a competetive engine etc and keep the costs under control.

 

But if red bull are awash with money, why aren't they buying cosworth and building their own engines then? If cosworth came back, would they really find customers, having been out of f1 so long, and having seen the mess Honda have made with their resources?

 

Newey: Red Bull 'committee' hasn't worked for 2017 F1 rule changes - F1 - Autosport

Adrian Newey believes the 'committee' structure Red Bull put in place to deal with his step back from frontline Formula 1 design duties struggled to handle the 2017 rule changes.

Red Bull has only taken two podium finishes so far in a season where it had been tipped to return to championship form.

That has prompted Newey to increase his involvement in F1 again after a period in which he wound down his role in the team to focus on other projects including the Aston Martin hypercar and the America's Cup yacht race.

"I had stepped right back, but it became obvious that the car under a more delegated, or a committee way of operating, wasn't performing," Newey told Autosport.

"As a kind of a duty to the team, to try and bring things forward, I have been quite busy since the second test, getting back involved to see what I can do to help.

"It's not what I want to be doing long term, but I'm happy to be doing it for a period of time.

"I think what's clear is that my stepping back in a system of regulatory stability, then the system was working, but that kind of committee approach hasn't worked when we've had a big regulation change.

"So that's what we need to consider for the future."

 

With Newey wanting to step back full time, maybe Verstappen and Ricci are better off finding work at a different team shortly....

 

We shall see eh? Contracts are just paper

 

Verstappen to take Elton's place would be rather nice...though that Merc dominance will continue then

 

Please no more dominant Mercedes...You will replace a ton of unreasonable fans against a ton of others, now chearing for Max the very same way those do for Lewis. If he wins it is all him and if he looses those are the "Germans"
You have to pay attention that you do not get the same for Max like those you criticize for Lewis

 

True but impossible to tell how good the McLaren really is with that engine in it.

 

Cyril Abiteboul - No major Renault update until 2018

Looks like they need to optimize aero and pray for bad weather and mech problems for Mercedes and Ferrari.

 

+1

At this point I'd allocate 100% of resources to 2018. Employ henchmen to keep the French working on a good engine and not **** off to the sea in August, force Newey work on the F1 car.