360 f1 gearbox oil

well aldous voice states that he uses it in his gearbox oil change

 

I think it's the hypoid gears (crownwheel and pinion) that call for the GL5 not the posi trac.
Seems the syncros would prefer the GL4. I wonder what's bad about GL4 for the hypoid gears.?

Ok found out the GL5 has way more sulphur/phosphorus extreme pressure additive for hypoid gears that are subject to shock loading. The sulphur/phosphorus eats brass syncros.
GL4 is good for hypoid gears without shock loading and much better for syncros.
I would say these transmissions are subject to shock. Rapid gearchanges and throttle on off etc.
Manufactures "claim" their GL5's have other "de-activating/neutralising" additives that stop the reaction with brass. Can we believe them?
The fault lies with the green brigade. The additive used to be lead which was great for your trans but not for the environment.

 

I have dealt with Aldous and he's a fine chap and very knowledgeable. But with all due respect, he is a banker, not a Ferrari Technician.

 

Ive been using Mobil 1 for a long time in a 360 and scuderia with no problems. Are you guys suggesting I switch to something else?

 

right ok so if i decide to go for the redline gl5 do i get the NS ?

 

For reference. In my 355, 348 etc I used Redline 75/90NS. If I get any differential chatter i would add a small amount of Redline Friction Modifier until the chatter stopped.
Will probably use the same in my new to me 360 spider. If Ferrari recommends GL5 there must be a requirement based on engineering(I would hope!)

 

The GL5 additives chemically attach to the metal creating an ablative coating that needs to be worn off. That is how it protects the hypoid gears. When it attaches to the brass it needs to be removed before syncro function. That is why it inhibits the syncros. When it attaches to the brass it doesn't really wear off, it shears off with a few brass particles attached. This is why that big box of bad syncros I have look like the surface is shredded instead of polished they way a typical old worn syncro looks.

It has nothing to do with corrosion and why those statements are meaningless.

 

A follow up on my previous posts in this thread. Although there is probably no right oil to use since as everyone is aware by now - the Gl-4 is great for syncho but Ferrari calls for Gl-5 for it in its transaxle which is not good for synchos I have come up with my choice after my research. I am sure someone can debate it and I am open to hear why it is not a great choice. These are the two oils I am ended up considering using in my Scud. #1 - Rotra LSX - a little harder to get but has been recommended before by ferrari, lambo, Maserati in some of there models. It is also is rated GL-4 and GL-5 ..currently recommended by ENI for Ferrari as well and a substitute for the original fill. Please note that it does not specifically say yellow metal safe. #2 - The Motul 300 ( not 300ls) - this was also suggested by the Motul engineers. It is rated gl-4 and gl-5 and yellow metal safe. It does not have LS but if chatter appears I can always add small amounts of friction modifiers. Based on everything I read, researched, and listened to on here, this is my choice. Not saying it is the best for you ....just my choice for what I think is the best for me considering all things. I have attached spec sheets - please take a look



Thanks Dominick
View attachment Gear_300_75W-90_3178__28GB_29_5B1_5D.pdf
View attachment eni Rotra LSX 75W-90.pdf

 

LSX is a great oil it is just too bad the American importer has no real interest in selling it. It is hard to get in anything but liter bottles and those are a waste of time.

It was by the way a GL4 when Ferrari started to use it. It evolved into a GL5. Best thing going for BB's and TR's but those have iron syncros.

 

The lesson that should be taken away is don't just go on the internet and take the advice of someone who's only bona fide is they have internet access. If you are servicing your own car, do the research and learn what needs to be done. If you take it to a mechanic, demand one who does the same. Cars are changing and so are the products we use, sometimes for the better and often not. Mechanics cannot do the job the same we did 20 years ago any more than a doctor can.

 

Brian ...exactly .. I research every thing to death ..even down to a bolt for my bonnet .. unfortunately it is sometimes hard to get information from manufacturers and sometimes thier engineers​ leave a little to be desired ...but researching is the best thing you can ..even mechanics and shops can led you down the wrong path sometimes ..

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

Hi Brian,

What gearbox oil are you using these days for the 360 F1 ?
I've been using the Redline 75/90 NS with no issues that I can see. Do you have another product you like any better ?

Thanks,

Skipp

 

Shift quality is of no concern in an F1. The hydraulics cannot tell the difference. Most of us used that or similar until the fleet of cars got older. I am very serious when I say I have a big box of destroyed syncros and they are not just from 360. They are from all of the brass syncro cars. That's when I started investigating. Many people have changed over to a GL4 but I will never publicly advocate (and neither will any oil company) a lubricant specification contrary to Ferrari's advice.

I have also found a supplier outside of the Ferrari supply chain for reasonably priced Graziano syncros that can be bought al la carte instead of with a complete unneeded assembly. We have already been doing business. This place is starting to be a transmission shop. Doing Garazianos for some of the SLC guys too.

 

Brian, thank you for the reply and shared experience. I understand full well any opinion given is open to liability.

 

Now THAT is the non-binding opinion I was waiting to hear!

I actually have liked the Valvoline that Taz has advocated for a few years now and have liked it. Too much chatter with the redline when I had it in my car.

 

Terry has been very happy with it but it is not available here in any convenient quantity so I never tried. I actually ordered several 20 liter pails of a Shell product I like and the cheapest way to get it was to buy in England and have it shipped on a pallet. Wouldn't think you'd have to do that in Texas. Cost far less in the end.

 

The Valvoline is also GL5.

 

Thanks for the insight. I was aware of the way the EP additive shears the brass off. I guess my layman terms of "eats" and "reaction" were not overly correct.
But I never mentioned "corrosion".

 

A little more information for those who are starting the search for the perfect oil ( btw doesn't exist)

In my research - I had considered Mobil 1 75w90 syn gear lube, Valvoline synpower full syn 75w-90, Redline 75w-90ns and 75w-90, royal purple, a few others and the two I gave you seem to be the best of the bunch based on technical specs and/or my emails with the companies themselves.

FYI - Valvoline suggested we use Synchromesh MTF but based on tech sheets I did not like it

So at the end - Rotra LSX and/or Motul 300 if you want a gl-5 that is also rated Gl-4 and states can be used in any gearboxes, transaxles, etc.

I would like to hear anyone who has used them two and has had any negative and/or positive experiences.

 

Every single GL6 meets GL5 and also meets GL4 specs and GL3 etc. Most don't bother to say that but it is true and changes this not at all.

As far checking out the specs of Royal Purple it is interesting you say that. Myself and others will not use their products because they are famous for not telling us anything about their products. It is the only product I have put in at a customers request and he turned right around and asked I drain that crap back out. He liked it that much.

 

The last thing I will add is that the two I mentioned specifically stated it can be used in manual gearboxes with synchos which some others that are gl-5 including Valvoline synpower states "not to" use when you look at footnotes on spec sheet and confirmed by their tech's.

As for the RP max gear ...it did seem promising based on specs since it stated "can be used in gearboxes where Gl-4 is specified" - i discounted based on various forums (including your comments from a older post Brian), I think it was not liked by GTR owners as well, and the Amsoil test of copper corrosion (for what it is worth)

The RP rep did say the MAX GEAR was what they recommend

I did not research Amsoil - just not a fan - no scientific reason behind it

 

Problem is any oil rated GL4 and GL5...is GL5 and has the syncro nasties in it. The Redline NS claims to be friendly to syncros but Brian has hinted otherwise.
I hate fixing cars. I would rather take good care of them. Prevention rather than cure type of deal. But I don't know what to do here. I'm leaning towards the GL4 but don't want to wear out diff gears prematurely either.

 

It is a conundrum the few of us in the automotive world face who operate the few cars with hypoid gears in a manual transmission.

FWIW I had a client with a 308 with about 140,000 miles running MTL and it was still perfect. Not a hypoid gear set though. A lot of Porsches have been running it a very long time and a lot of 355s running it a long time. The GL5 oils only go back to the 80's. We always ran GL4 prior and we didn't have trouble with it. It was really made for American differentials with high offset hypoid gears designed to operate very quietly.


As late as the TRs and 348's Ferrari was still using GL4 and we had no issues with gear wear in normal use..

 

I am not going to take 100 PM's asking me what to use.

Read up and make your own decisions.

 

Most don't read the owners manual.