Dream with an F1 Ferrari V12 again

I know if Enzo Ferrari would be alive Vettel and Raikkonen would be driving a F1 v12 today.
The old man insurance would not have allowed this current horrible sound.
I can not understand how the best formula on the planet does not support the most iconic engine.

 

Enzo Ferrari was a pragmatic man: he raced what was needed or available, from V12 to 4 in-line.

He already ditched the V12 for a V6 Turbo in the early 80s and he´d do it again now.

 

I say if Enzo were alive today he would have been asked to sing for ACDC rather than silly Axl Rose.

 

+1

 

In the 80s Ferrari built the V6 turbo to be competitive, but also built the Indy Car to push the FIA ​​with the V12 return, that finally happened in 1989.

 

The V12 configuration was mythical for Ferrari because he was the only car manufacturer to use that configuration after WWII.

But things have changed, and many car makers have or had V12 in their range: Lamborghini, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Mercedes, BMW just to name a few.

So, the aura that came with the exclusivity has vanished, and most Ferrari nowadays are sold with a turbo V8.

 

Enzo Ferrari once upon a time raced Lancia D50's badged as Ferrari's because his own cars were not competitive!

He also raced V6's when required in the 1960's and 1980's, he raced a V8 in 1964 with the 158, and in the 1970's he sacrificed the V12 for the flat 12!

If the V12 was found to have an advantage over the V6 in 2017 then he would have pushed to use it, but as with the 60's and 80's, he would have had no problem with the idea of using the V6 in 2017 if it was the best engine for the job.

Statements of Enzo Ferrari pushing for V12's in today's F1 are just romanticised nonsense! - He would have used whatever engine configuration gave his team the best chance of winning, and that means he would have used the exact same V6 turbo that we have today!

 

Enzo would run what he thought would win. Simple as that.

I remember in the V10 period Porsche was looking at making a motor. A clean sheet investigation of what would be best.

After the study they found out that the 10 cylinder had a lot of advantages over the 12 in terms of packaging, weight, fuel economy, complexity, and even power -- it had less friction.

The V12 isn't always the best choice.

 

Was this before or after Porsche supplied the V12 lump for the Footwork Arrows?

 

Ferrari would certainly benefit from having the best power again. Merc should not be producing more power and breezing past a Ferrari

 

The Indy Car was built to get more things apart from the V12, but if Ferrari wanted to use a V12 it was because they thought it suited them better. They had no problem ditching the V12 before and after, any time it didn't suit them.

 

I loved the V-12s also: in the Eagle Weslake, the BRMs, etc. The irony here is that Ferrari never won a single modern F-1 driver's championship with a V-12 car!

 

Huh?

 

Porsche decided not to make the engine after doing their study.

 

However I remember an Autosprint article from the beginning of 2000 or 2001 that Ferrari and Toyota were working on a V12 for the next seasons.
Short time after that the FIA prohibits the V12, and made obligatory the use of the V10.
I think I still have the magazine, I should look for in the archive.

 

Interesting thanks

 

Here I found the magazines mentioned.
In the N° 48 of November 30, 1999 announces that Ferrari returns to V12 in 2001.
2 weeks later in the N° 50 the FIA announces the prohibition of the V12.
I remember that at that moment I thought, if Enzo was alive this prohibition did not happen.

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According to Enzo Ferrari's Memoirs, the reason he chose to have a V12 was because no other manufacturer was building one after WWII.
Lincoln and Packard had stopped, so had Alfa that tried it. Sunbeam also had stopped, and the Colombo-designed Ferrari engine was the only V12 available.

 

Sweet thanks!

 

I think V10 F1s sounded better than V12s. But anything sounds better than the current V6s. Even the previous 4s. F1 shouldn't be forced to the million regulations imposed on it; THAT is the problem. Maybe just limit the fuel, and let the teams use any engine they want. But no so much that the freaking race is just a fuel saving strategy, rather than all-out racing. Oh well. I currently fast-forward F1 races to about 15 minutes total.

 

That is incorrect. The Porsche V12 was a Weissach design center project by engineer Hans Mezger. The engine was offered to McLaren International in 1987 and Technical Director Gordon Murray passed on it. The project was eventually taken up by Footwork which had absorbed the Arrows F1 team. The Footwork Arrows competed in 1991 but the engine was too large, too complex(power take-off from the center of the crank), underpowered and hopelessly overweight. The engine was used for six races and was then shelved.

(source: History of the Grand Prix Car 1966-91 by Doug Nye)

 

The V12 Porsche engine was based on the old V6 TAG block used by McLaren.
Mezger joined 2 V6 blocks back to back with power take-off in the middle.

It wasn't his best idea !!

Remarkably, Ford engineers did the same when they coupled 2 V6 Mondeo engines to create the V12 that powered the Aston Martin until recently. Aston belonged to Ford at the time.

 

Also not a great engine!

 

I am not judge of that, but it has been on the DB9, and Vanquish for a number of years.

Weight and size are not so critical on a road car.

Only the new DB11 will have the V12 Mercedes-AMG, but with turbo, methink.

 

With all these threats of Ferrari from the F1 exit, I have the sensation of the current PU and future PU for 2021 neither go with the Ferrari philosophy.
I would love an opening of F1 to all the future available technologies.
I think that a hydrogen V12 engine without limit of revolutions would be the ideal engine for Ferrari, maybe with only 500 kg to compensate the torque of the electric and turbo engines.