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Water Pump Rebuild Tricks

Discussion in '206/246' started by 2dinos, May 29, 2017.

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  1. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    3,017
    #1 2dinos, May 29, 2017
    I rebuilt my Dino water pump only to discover (of course) that the seal replacement face was poorly formed after re-install. Would have been easy to catch had I suspected a new seal could be delivered this way. So off I go, back onto the fun and repeat the rebuild. Nothing more fun than re-doing a job - right? Now, this one works perfect ---- for a while, then I start seeing intermittent leaking from the shaft weep hole. This means seal problem. So, before I go back in again, any tips or tricks to look out for? I know the seal face has to be perfect. The housing where the seal presses into must be clean, and un-pitted etc. The seal must be inserted perfectly square into the housing. The impeller must be pressed in so that the clearance from the housing is correct. Lastly, the impeller face which contacts the seal must be smooth, and true.

    Now what else?? Can you get the seal from Ferrari, or wherever to get the best quality. Press the impeller back on during a full moon :)

    Thanks!
     
  2. racerboy9

    racerboy9 F1 Rookie
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    #2 racerboy9, May 29, 2017
    The original impellers were cast iron and were heat treated where the seal made contact. You could see the demarcation line of the heat treatment about 1/8" back from the face. Not sure what the replacement impellers are today. Someone made a batch without the heat treating and they leaked prematurely.
     
  3. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,951
    Isle of man- uk
    #3 mike32, May 30, 2017
    I dont know the seal design but the thing to check is if the rotating part of the seal can slide along the shaft. As the seal face wears the spring pressure on the rotating face should take up the wear, other wise the seal will be ok when fitted, it then wears and will leak if the wear is not taken up.
    Sometimes it can jam on the shaft and not auto adjust. Polish up with some wet and dry paper and brass polish, put some silicon grease on the shaft and re assemble.
     
  4. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    3,017
    #4 2dinos, May 30, 2017
    Thank you guys. I guess another good question is, which pump is your favorite? Brass impellor? Aluminum? Original?
     
  5. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
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    #5 mike32, May 30, 2017
    It is pumping water not gold dust so as long as it works.
     
  6. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    3,017
    #6 2dinos, May 30, 2017
    I hear you and couldn't agree more. Can you imagine going back in a fourth time? I'm going to be laughing like Woody Woodpecker. Just looking for successful experiences. If no issues with either, than I've just got a weird one, and hopefully, third time is charmed.
     
  7. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
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    #7 pshoejberg, May 30, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I used a new aftermarket brass impeller (And a new shaft) due to severe corrosion on the original impeller seal surface (See picture). Also used a slight amount of sealer on the outside of the impeller seal before pressing it in place. Never looked back since. Good luck.

    Regards Peter
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  8. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

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    #8 2dinos, May 31, 2017
    Thank you! Did you get the seal/bearing/impellor from Superformance?
     
  9. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
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    #9 pshoejberg, May 31, 2017
    Looking back into my notes this is what I bought for the pump overhaul:

    Impeller seal: Superformance: #24610005

    Bearing / Shaft: Superformance: #24610010

    Impeller: Dino Parts: #15-21

    Today I would prefer to buy all components from same vendor to ensure fit, but back then I don't think the bras impeller was available from SF. DP carries a complete repair kit as you might know.

    Best Peter
     
  10. russh

    russh Karting
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    Russell Hazarian
    #10 russh, Oct 9, 2024
    Hi Peter,

    I am in the process of rebuilding my water pump, and noticed that you were using feeler gauges below the water pump impeller. Do you happen to recall what size you used. Thank you.

    Russell
     
  11. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
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    #11 pshoejberg, Oct 10, 2024
    0.7 mm as I recall it.

    Best, Peter
     
  12. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
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    #12 Motob, Oct 10, 2024
    If you look at the factory repair manual it is .5mm/.020"
     
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  13. russh

    russh Karting
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    #13 russh, Oct 12, 2024
    Brian, I never thought to look in the repair manual. I didn't realize that it had information related to replacement of the water pump bearing. Thank you.
     
  14. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    #14 fatbillybob, Oct 12, 2024
    Reading the 1st post on leaking seal after rebuild...For some reason the seals on the 550 maranello are amazingly fragile and need to be supported by a special tool for install so the fragile ceramic does not crack and later leak. It is the only WP I have ever had to do this. How are the Dino seals? Do you need to support those seals on install?
     
  15. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
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    #15 2dinos, Nov 8, 2024
    Interesting on the 550! I love Ferrari technology and understanding why they do what they do.

    The V6 Dino water pump uses very basic material technology. The seal is not ceramic like the 308 or 512. The seal surface looks like phenolic which seals against the cast iron impeller (or brass for replacement impelller). Ceramic imho is definitely superior. This was problem #1 I had where I trusted the replacement seal surface. After going back in to correct this doing an entire re-rebuild (I toss bearings w shaft regardless of use), I cleaned the new seal face which was not perfect with 600 on a granite micro-flat. This rebuild was not perfect. It lasted ~ 1/2 hour before showing weeping. Now I suspected impeller runout was to blame. I checked engineering books to get idea of runout requirements. IIRC, <.00015 in TIR based on Ø and RPM. I found ~.0025 in TIR on the impeller seal surface. I guess at idle, it would work, but when the revs come up, the seal can't cope with the wobble. To clean up cast iron surface, I recut the impeller surface and polished. What a journey. A new impeller would have been a good start. Now all seems happy. My takeaway is inspect the parts you get very carefully. Even brand new and shiny.
     
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  16. Stefan Elshout

    Stefan Elshout Karting

    Dec 1, 2011
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    #16 Stefan Elshout, Dec 4, 2024
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2024
    I always convert waterpumps with these types of seals to a more modern ceramic seal. They are much better, stronger and longer lasting design and still being used today. Also the seal does not seal agains the impeller surface like the originals do, so no need to worry about rusted or pitted seal surface on the impeller.
    They are readily available in the correct size while they are used in a million different cars/trucks/tractors.
    The seal itself is normally slightly higher than the original one, so you need to machine the impeller some mm's down, but once converted you'll never have to look back.
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