Ferrari or BMW i8 or Lotus Evora

Greetings -

I've posted under various sections as I try to decide among the F430, California and 612 as a replacement for my 3 pedal 360 spider, which was sold years ago.

As I gather more information about these cars I'm beginning to wonder if I'll miss the third pedal as much as I fear I might. As an aside my daily driver is a VW Sportwagen, 5 speed manual transmission car. It's hard to believe how enjoyable that car is, as well as how practical for toting around grandchildren and their various gear.

Anyway, since the Ferraris I'm considering will be either F1 or DCT cars, I began to wonder if I should consider something like the Lotus Evora with a proper manual transmission. My friend bought a Ford Mustang Shelby GT350 (yeah, I know), and I must admit that it was a very interesting car. It advertises a flat plane crank, but it doesn't feel quite the same as the Ferrari - nor did I expect it to for the price it's being sold for.

Another friend has the BMW i8, and while I'm not sure about how well it will hold up over the years, it's another interesting ride. The ability to shift from EV to hybrid gas is very impressive.

So my question is: For those who still prefer Ferraris, is the DCT in the California more responsive/less maintenance than the F1 in the F430? I realize that many consider the California a "compromise" Ferrari, but I must admit that the California 30 that I drove was very enjoyable. I'm just not sure how it drives over longer timeframes versus the F430.

For those who have cars other than Ferrari, or have lots of experience driving them, is the Lotus Evora or the Shelby worth considering?

Anyone with BMW i8 experience - I'd like your thoughts on that car as a standalone vehicle, and as a possible "substitute" for a F430/California.

Thanks in advance.

 

I owned an Evora that I bought new. The car is wonderful to drive. The car broke down on the third week of ownership. The dealer would not honor the warranty. In the dealers defense Lotus was being purchased by a company in India, Proton or something like that. This may have improved if the India has full responsibility, who knows.

I drove a BMW I8, just a beautiful car. If you are young it may not bother you but the BMW has a hump you have to get over, a big hump to get into the drivers seat. In my view the car is very under powered, but gorgeous. The M cars are stunning drivers. I love the M3s and never owned but drove a M6 just awesome.

The Corvettes have become good drivers cars and reliable as an anvil. I love the Porsche 911 I just bought a 2017.

Just to surprise your self try a Miata. Not a fast car bought with the manual and the great handling just a fun car. Mine is the hard top convertible. The older Miata models were not good drivers cars but the newer cars are excellent and not very expensive.

Best

Lee

 

Really hard question to answer. I've had my i8 for 7 months now. 3k miles on it. Great car. EV mode is very cool and range isn't bad. Performance is pretty good but it needs more power (although very few cars don't after a few thousand miles of ownership).

The car is a HUGE attention getter. People just love it. Getting in and out is really difficult for a lot of people. I don't have an issue but I've had much more practice than most.

Car has been super solid. No rattles. The carbon tub is serious stuff. Car feels super solid. The cabin is airy and the tech works well. Overall I give it an 8.5/10.

 

Thanks for the comments.

I'm a "senior citizen" - code for "old geezer". Getting into the i8 was "interesting", but my wife has arthritis and I wonder how that's going to work. I did like the car, but an update is coming at yearend, and I fear that depreciation of current cars may be significant - so as much as I like the car and it's concept, waiting seems reasonable.

I did enjoy the Miata I test drove, but out of Italian loyalty I'd likely consider the Fiat 128 if I go in that direction.

Thanks for the Lotus feedback - it's an interesting car, but your story just reinforces the stereotype of Lotus - lovely, but build quality leaves a lot to be desired.

I'm inclined toward a F430, but I'm concerned about header issues, and the aftermarket headers I've driven are all VERY loud - not at all enjoyable after any length of time. The California seems to be universally unloved, but seems like a bargain - DCT, modern electronics, a quasi GT/sports car in one package. Pricing seems very competitive as well. Yet the car still seems "unloved". Hard to understand.

 

I know nothing of an update at year end. I would have heard. The Spider is coming out next year I believe.

 

Hi -

Here is one source for the BMW i8 update - there are others. Bigger battery, some cosmetics, etc.

2018 BMW i8: Refresh, Spy Shots, Performance, and Price - 2017 / 2018 Luxury Cars

 

Unfortunately I think that's all just hearsay at the moment. The convertible is definitely coming. I've spoken to BMW NA execs multiple times about wanting more power. But they certainly haven't let on to me if something is definitely in the works.

 

Jon - thanks for the comments. I'm interested in why you gave the i8 a 8.5/10 rating. What brings down the score? Would you buy one again? What type of depreciation should I expect on the car over the year or so?

BMW dealer has a 2015 white/black, pretty base car, for $98k. I like the car, but fear significant depreciation potential. Your thoughts?

 

I have an i8, C7(not stock), Miata RF (nicely modified) an Alfa 4C, (plus a few others) and I have owned a gearshift 430. Here is my take, the i8 for the way I can (I can rarely push my cars to even 70% of their limits on the roads where I live) drive has plenty of power (I have pedal commander throttle controller on mine hate the drive by wire in sport mode). I am not young have arthritis (though at 5'8 152lbs I can still do 4 miles a day on the treadmill), I think the i8 is easy to get in and out of much easier than the lotus or the 4C. My girlfriend is tall with really long legs, she thinks the 4C is easier. The Miata RF is a great car (I had a 500 Abarth piece of crap engine had to redo the whole thing) so the Fiat (which is about as Italian as Sushi) was not even on my radar and with the right modifications (tune, headers exhaust, coilovers, short shift kit, custom made steering wheel) and I have the weighted gearshift know from my 430 in it (pattern does not match but no one drives it but me). The 400 is nice easier to get into and it comes in a gearshift, I will probably get one(when the value drops), but if you are worried about the car loosing value I'd run from the Lotus quickly. I do not care about the issues since I almost never have my cars serviced at the dealer (with a few exceptions). I am no fan of the F1 in the 430 if I had to go with a paddle car I would take the Cali. Unless you are one of the worlds best drivers (like some like to believe they are) the Cali is more car than you will ever need and a better sports cars (which it probably is not) than you are a driver. Now the 4c is a sports cars more visceral than the 430 or the Cali, better drivers car but to some it can be punishing (not exactly big on creature comforts). I am in the process of modifying mine not sure exactly how it will turn out yet. If Italian is your thing you can also try a Gallardo though if it were me I would only go with a RWD version (I had to make mine RWD drive), I could not stand the way it drove in AWD. I have owned a lot of cars ( somewhere around 460 and taken most of them apart I like to redesign things to fit what I like in a car), you are not going to like living with a 430, it is a terrible car to drive slow (or at anything below 8/10's its limits). If you want a Ferrari buy a Cali, trust me you be glad you did, and so with your wife. good luck.

 

I think most of the depreciation has occurred. But full disclosure I leased the car so depreciation is of no mind to me. Lease deals are very attractive on the i8.

What could be improved on the the i8?

1. More power. Not in need of significantly more but 10-15% more punch would make a world of difference I think
2. Better brakes. They are adequate but not as strong as my 458 by any means especially at high speeds
3. The interior should have carbon fiber accents instead of plastic for the MSRP of the car. You can get these bits replaced though with cf for a few thousand dollars.
4. It sounds good for a 1.5 liter, yes I know it's fake but in a car like this who cares. However, I often wish it sounded better but I'd settle for same sound and 50 more hp.
5. It should have a blind spot warning!
6. Stereo is absolute garbage.

There's not too much else. The car looks like a super car, has good sports car performance and also does a great GT impersonation. I've driven from Pittsburgh to Toronto and back twice and felt great upon arrival. You just can't expect super car performance or you'll be disappointed. It would pants a 360 to 100 mph though and because of traction easily keep up with an F430 at speeds below 100 mph. I also get like 32 mpg and I push it hard.

For reference sake I'd give my 458 a 9/10.

 

Thanks for the posts - very helpful. Made me think about how I drive. Fact is I rarely "push it", or reach triple digit speeds. My joy is the handling of the car, and enjoying winding roads. I've driven motorcycles for nearly 50 years, and love the ability to lean into turns. Top speed isn't now, nor ever was, a primary factor although I've had several top end sports bikes (Ducati 916, MV Agusta F800 Italia, Yamaha F3, etc.

I've tracked some of my cars, but that's a rare occasion, not a common event or even an event that I look forward to. The track experience is to learn how to handle the car, not to set lap records. I've used a driving coach each time, and that person has helped with technique, braking skills and maximizing the driving line to get smooth flow while driving. Those skills transfer to road driving, but are dramatically reduced to match speed limits and driving conditions on public roads.

My 360 spider was our "fun" car - we always road with the top down, even in cooler weather, enjoyed the feel of the sun and moving air, and the view of an unlimited sky. We'd ride year round, enjoying everything from the seashore to the mountains - it was similar to the motorcycle creed - Just Ride. When I'm on my motorcycle (Moto Guzzi California 1400), I am fully involved - nothing automatic, both hands constantly in use, and both feet. No radio or windshield - just riding. I rarely am that engaged in a car. And that makes me wonder about the F1 or DCT transmission cars. I recently bought a VW 5 speed manual SportWagen - a car that gets a lot of use with 3 grandchildren and their stuff, especially since they live 90 and 175 miles from my home. I was surprised about how much I enjoy that car - fun to drive, though without much power, it has me driving like I did 50 years ago with a Fiat 850 spider - lots of throttle, and even at redline I'm well under the speed limit. Can't do that with any Ferrari, but that's not the point of ownership, at least to me.

So, as I consider these cars, I've reverted back to looking at what do I really want from the car? If a manual transmission VW SportWagen is enjoyable, and costs essentially nothing to own/drive, what exactly do I want/need from any of the other cars that I mentioned? That's where the i8 gets a bit of a boost - not from it's performance envelope necessarily, but more from it's unique character and style. I've my wife's BMW 335d - 429 pound feet of torque available from 1600 RPMS and up. It's not the top speed, or even the acceleration, it's the torque hit that gets your attention.

You've all made me think about having the right tool for the job, not just buying something to have in the garage. Thanks for the insight. Now I have to decide what tools to put into the toolbox. I've enjoyed driving my wife's car again - hadn't done it in a while. Also enjoy putting some miles on the Moto Guzzi - hadn't used it as often as I should. And the VW actually is getting more miles than the Mercedes E350, which I bought specifically for road trips to the kids/grandkids.

Nothing like perspective and knowledgable people making good comments/suggestions to clarify things - thanks to all. I don't know what direction I'll eventually take, but at least I have a plan and perspective - two things that I didn't have when I posted initially.

 

Just reading your posts here, I am inclined to say a Cali 30 is the right choice.

 

So from reading your options, I guess your budget tops out at $130k-ish?

My choices in manual cars would include:
Corvette C7 Z06 - Just so much performance
5th gen Viper - For those who tire of seeing a Corvette constantly
Audi R8 V10 (prev gen) - So classy, great engine
BMW M4 - Hooligan city
Jag F-Type V6 - Great exhaust note
Early Lamborghini Gallardo - Cool style in a sexy package
Aston Martin V12 Vantage - Damn, bet this is a tasty ride

 

I have had my i8 for a year and 10K trouble free miles. The car is just exceptional in every way. It is hopelessly misunderstood, especially by arm chair experts. I leased mine after an extended test drive. It took about two or three days into the drive before she started revealing all of her charm to me. I drive her everywhere, work, errands, kids to school, dinners, etc. She handles everything I throw at her without complaint. An amazing feat of science. The fact that a car with such capability routinely gets me 45mpg, when competitors of similar performance and weight can barely manage 20mpg, really sums up the genius of the car. There are a million fascinating tidbits about the car that can be found online or by talking to BMW. For example, people think the engine is just a souped up mini engine. But the technology is worlds different. The engine is designed to bang off the rev limiter from cold without harming the engine. I got a dissertation from the factory on how they accomplished it when I emailed North America. Fascinating stuff. There is tech and engineering brilliance everywhere. Even the windshield wiper arms are drilled for lightness. It just goes on and on. But here is the thing. It is NOT everyone's cup of tea. If you are just looking for performance there are better options. If you are really interested, go to BMW and request an extended test drive. You will either leave a true believer or you'll just go "meh" ... there is no inbetween I've found. Personally, I think it is the best modern car out there...

 

I test drove a Fiat Spider Abarth last fall, and to me it felt like it handled like a first-generation Miata - horse and rider as one, and all that. Definitely take that one for a spin if you decide to go low-budget!

 

I owned a last generation Miata (NC) and have a good amount of seat time in the new RF. Miata's are pure sports cars and exceptional in almost every way. I haven't driven the Abarth, but I think it is a stretch to call it Italian. It is essentially the same car as the Miata and made in the same factory, but just with some distinct flair and a Fiat engine. Don't get me wrong, I am sure they are fantastic (how can they not be when they are so closely related to the Miata) ..but they are about as italian as the Chrysler TC Maserati

 

Lotus Evora 400 with manual, even more so if you like the connected feel of a bike, and are I to handling and feel. In fact if those are criteria no other modern comes close.
They're Toyota powered and have been built for a while so bugs ironed out. The 400 is faster better built handles better etc than an earlier evora.

I have 2 Loti never had an issue. I service at an independent and buy from a dealer in the Midwest who is superlative. There is a large network of independents who wok on newer loti and in any event they are not mechanically complex, nor corrupted by excess tech.

 

I agree and would also go for a Lotus 400 at this price point.

 

After hearing the OP describe himself no way he should go Evora. Ferrari Cali all day.

 

I was a dealer before (not Lotus though), and I am wondering on what basis the dealer refused to honour the warranty on your Evora

The only reasons I know are neglect, or misuse.

If the dealer suspects the car was used for "testing and motor racing", including track days, he may decline to honour the warranty.

Also if the car hasn't been serviced by a dealer according to schedule it is considered as "neglected".

Lotus has been owned for a number of years by Proton which is a Malaysian company.
Last week, Lotus was bought by Geely, a Chinese company that owns Volvo, and soon-to-be-launched Lynk&Co. But Lotus is still very much a British company.

 

You make great points and maybe they thought that but never verbalized it to me. The car on the third week of ownership would not start. I wanted them to pick it up which they would not agree to do. If they had looked at the car they would have found the car was perfect as it was when I picked it up. They told me they could not honor the warranty if I brough the car to them since Lotus proper no longer owned the company.

I never raced the car or ever drove the car harshly. I paid to get it running then I dumped It!

"Very much a British company" is how you define ownership. The last time I looked into it The cars were made in Brittan. Maybe the countries you mentioned that own or owned the company will help the brand on quality control.

Sad because Lotus are great drivers cars.

Great post

Lee

 

I dont see reason for uncomfortable mid engine layout for the op.. more in line for gt type car.

How about maserati? There is convt one for sale here thats 4 yrs old, 300 miles (yes), 175k sticker, asking 95k. Gorgeous blue.

Also should test out a z06 convt. Much more bang for buck than cali and warranty too.

 

Personally, I wouldn't condemn a make because one of their cars failed to start one morning for unknown reason. But anyway, it looks to me that the problem was the dealer's attitude, more than the car!!

I don't buy his explanations. When a company is sold, its new owner takes over the liabilities, including the warranty obligations. That's the law here, and I would be surprised if it was different where you live.

 

I've had 3 Lotus, with a new Evora 400 sitting in my garage. The 400 is a HUGE step forward in quality, fit and finish. It's very much a competitor to a current 911 and far more exotic looking. I couldn't recommend test driving one more.

 

thanks for that