Is a 456 a good investment?

Hello

My brother wants me to invest (with him) into a 456.

It seems he's looking at 2000 456 GT, Manual transmission.

Will this car go up in value dramatically? Will it beat the stock market or other investment avenues?

I realize these are difficult questions to answer. Is there a place where I can go to get a better idea of if it is a wise investment?

Thanks a lot

 

For eight years I have owned a 1999 456MGT, 6 speed. It is great car to drive but carries its share of anguish. Kind of a love/hate relationship. It has increased in value but is NOT a good investment. Buy cars to enjoy, if you make some money it is a bonus and you are lucky.

 

Impossible to say for sure. History of V12 front engined Ferraris suggests that, at some point, 456s may increase in value, maybe even substantially. But it's pure speculation to say for sure when or over what time frame this may occur and to what magnitude. In other words, who the hell knows?

With most high-end cars mileage, documentation and condition are all-important. Anything "investment-grade" basically means "low" mileage; other things equal, the lower the mileage the higher the value. This also presents a conundrum, which is that you can't drive it and put miles on it lest you adversely affect its market value vs. other lower-mileage examples. To my mind this obviates the reason to own it in the first place; what's the point if you can't drive it? Go and buy art. Or real estate.

IMO, in general "collector" cars should not be seen as "investments" per se, in the same vein as, say, real estate or stocks. Any car that goes up in value during your ownership and that you sell for a profit (including what you have in it during the time you own it, which many people tend to forget about) has as much to do about length of ownership, timing and pure luck as anything else.

I've been buying/selling "collector" cars for 30+ years and the only one I've made serious money on - a '65 Shelby GT350 - was because I had it long enough (12 years) to realize the large rise in market values for that car.

So, I would say go and buy your 456 with your brother because you both agree that it would be fun to own and drive and enjoy. Buy the best lowest-mileage example you can find and afford, hang onto it long enough and take good care of it (and not have to sink too much into it) and you'll probably be able to own it for nearly break-even. And as a bonus if you're lucky, maybe even make a little money. Of course, YMMV.

 

Disclaimer: Owner of a 2003 456M GT with 6-sp

Manual 456 and 456Ms bottomed about 3 yrs ago and are on a slow climb. Manuals are separating from automatics in price with the premium for the 6-sp gaining some ground. The overall Ferrari market seems at bit slow at present and those who say that the 456 should be purchased with an eye toward enjoyment rather than an investment are in general, quite correct.

Is there a flip side? The 250 GTE, the early 2+2 model related to all those wonderful 250 variants that go for tens of millions now, was the last to see prices rise. And they have never risen to the stratosphere like a GTO or LM. However, a GTE that my brother and I sold in the late 70s for ~$15K would be inflation adjusted to be ~$60K today. 250 GTEs now generally bring about $450K so there is indeed a buck to be made.

Based on prior history of 2+2 values, it will take a view to the long term to realize anything like that kind of return. And the costs of keeping and maintaining the beast are non-trivial. Plenty of information here on common problems and the costs of timing belt major service, etc.

Long term, the 456 is likely to get pulled up on the tail side of 550 and 575 values which have been increasing until recently but appear to be holding steady through this slow cycle. The 456 was a very expensive car when new with stickers of $225-245K in the early 2000s. With low mileage 456M 6-sp examples going over the block at auctions this year in the ~$135K range, it will be a while before the cars reach the magic >orig sticker territory.

YMMV

Best of luck in your hunt and be sure to pay absolute top dollar for a 456M 6-sp!! (No, wait, that's self-serving and unkind....ahhh, do it anyway!!)

BTW, this is a great forum for information about Ferrari in general and specific models. And generally pretty civilized in comparison to lots of car forums.

 

+1 Also, read the "Bubble" thread for all the twists and turns that can occur and the price of ownership:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/vintage-ferrari-market/395802-bubble-due-burst.html

 

Anything that costs money to own (insurance, maintenance, storage, registration, smog checks if in CA etc.) and betting on the future selling price is NOT and investment it's called speculation. Investments generate cash flow or have a path to cash flow.

Cars are not investments. Buy a low fee mutual fund or a rental property if you want to make money.

To illustrate this point let's say you found the perfect "investment" car for $100,000. At a minimum insurance would be about $2,000 year, maintenance at a minimum $1,500 a year (likely much higher) and storage at $200/month or $2,400 a year. That's a total of at LEAST $5,900 a year just to own the car or an annual loss of 5.9%. You may say OK but this car will appreciate 10% annually so I can get a net "return" of 4.1%! Great but you'll have to pay tax on that 10% gain which means you don't actually make any money. Bottom line don't buy a car to make money. Make money and then buy a car.

 

My insurance and storage are each about 700 a year and it is very dependent on usage and your personal situation whether you incur such costs. Otherwise I agree with your message.
Mind you I see that true price inflation (money devaluation) is about 8% a year so even with costs of 3% a year you're still well off.

 

Not an investment but sure a great excuse to buy it

You wont loose as much as a new car thats for sure

 

If this particular 456M is in mint condition with low miles (35000 or less) and you can pick it up for 40K or less, then yes, it should be a good investment. I bought mine to drive.

 

These cars are meant to be driven. Investment/speculation with automobiles is much harder now that the internet has made markets more perfect.

40-50 years ago, there were compared to today very few communication channels and they were inefficient: Road & Track and Car&Driver classifieds, Hemmings and Autoweek mostly. I lived in DC and Chicago and scoured suburban local newspapers and pennysaver magazines. When I went to sell, I took the cars to auction or the big publications. My searches in little local media got me some pretty rare birds: a 1959 Lola MkI, a 1961 Alfa Giulietta Sprint Speciale and for $7,500 in 1976, a 1967 Ferrari 330GTC, chassis #9217. I turned down the chance to buy a 289 Cobra because, at $9,800, I thought it was too expensive. Those days are sadly long gone.

 

456 is a good investment....in pleasure to drive it.

If you want to make money, you'd better buy diamonds or gold or somethig else but not a Ferrari. They are built to be on the roads and not in garages waiting for hypothetical profits.

 

No. I have a 456 manual. Could sell it now for a $50,000 profit. But why. Great driver,price will probably fall in the next recession. Just drive and enjoy a real front engine V12. Invest? a little gold or silver for a black swan day cant hurt.

 

Anything that costs as much to keep on the road as it appreciates is not a good investment. It's an affordable hobby, but not an investment.

 

Wow.. thanks for everyone's responses.

The actual car he wants is a 456M GT. I guess its a rare 456. Is this a worthwhile investment?

 

Welcome to Fchat I note its your first post.
Prices have already gone up according to Hagerty Valuation, take with that what you will, as there has been a couple of delivery mileage cars sell at auction recently
https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools/1997-Ferrari-456_GT.
And the tool stops at 1997

A 2000 456 has a host of issues that should be sorted, all of which have been extensively discussed on here.

IMO dakharris's post is the most succinct comment
Anything that costs as much to keep on the road as it appreciates is not a good investment. It's an affordable hobby, but not an investment.

 

I see absolutely nothing wrong with a hobby that finances itself . Great investment in pleasure too which is one of the goals of life anyhow.

 

This. This in spades!!!

 

It's cheaper than a real seaworthy boat... and you can use it every day if you want to...

 

A boat is a hole in the water into which you pour money.

 

Looks like OP is MIA.

 

Hey guys
I am here

Thanks for everyone's help. I really appreciate it

I responded but it never showed up.

The car he actually wants is the 456M GT, ~late 2003 .
He said this car is in limited production.

 

32 2003 456Ms, GTs and GTAs, were sold in the US according to NHSTA. Not a very big pot of cars.

In general, two seat Ferraris hold their value better than four seat Ferraris. Factor that in, too.

 

i had a 456mgt for many years. i bought it because my wife wanted me to be able to pick up the kids from school. my car had about 2000 km on the clock when i bought it and i sold it about 30k km later.
it was the most expensive car i have ever owned to maintain. you name it, either i or the previous owner replaced it.
it was comfortable and elegant. but it wasnt a great performer.

if i wanted to, i could buy it back from the dealer i sold it to for a minimal mark up because he still has it. do i want to? i dont know.

i think that it might rise in value slightly. have i fixed all the things that will go wrong in its lifetime? or would rather buy the better 612?

if the best ferrari v12 you can afford is a 456mgt, and you like the looks of it, then buy it. the worst thing that can happen is you have to own and drive a ferrari.

 

Ross you must have had a bad example or one with a poor history, I have not had excessive repairs on mine apart from a number of preventative things. So far, at least. The fuel pump rubbers and lower timing cover bearings come to mind as unusual items.

 

oh i had a great one - when it worked.
it was virtually a new car when i bought it. HOWEVER it had sat for a few years prior to my purchase. so i obliged the previous owner to have it all gone over and many things were replaced etc. then i used it as my daily. i am a very easy driver for my dailies - i am mechanically sympathetic, i am good with the clutch, i dont stress the system. and yet i spent about 30k in maintenance over the 9 years and 30k km i owned it.

radiator, ecus, clutch, thermostat, alternator, windows, shocks, fuel tank, etc etc all replaced or repaired. and more i cannot remember.

fine car, just not well built.