Thanks Rich. As a community service announcement, I washed both my cars yesterday and while the majority might know this, I can't help but inform everyone that both an original seal car and a new restored car, both back windows seeped in mad amounts of water. When these care are washed, it's imperative to open the back windows when drying to adsorb all the hidden water in between the window and rear interior. All 4 windows (in two cars) had enormous amounts of water that if it sat, would damage the car. Even if bringing the car to a detail shop, I would inform them as they always wash the cars.
I was curious yesterday while spending time with my cars about the rear spoiler, wing, whale tail. I ended up wondering if the 930 Turbo (Porsche 935) was the beginning what today is so prevalent on so many cars. A quick search and I found this information interesting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoiler_(car) A little more digging and I found that rear wings became prevalent in the 60's in racing here: McLaren briefly experimented with wings on their F1 cars in the early 1960s, but the idea was dropped. It was the Lotus 49 that finally gave downforce some lift. In 1967, Lotus that made its Formula One debut of the Lotus 49, the first F1 car to use aerofoil wings. The original wing design had the rear wing miles above the car, and driver Jim Clark won in its debut race. deadspin-quote-carrot-aligned-w-bgr-2 After a continued search, I wasn't able to learn about the first commercial cars that used wings. My guess would be that it started with Porsche and their 1973 RS (ducktail) and evolved into the whale tail, tea tray and all the way up to the GT3RS tails of today.
Bare metal pics of repairs to door stay. All metal fill. No epoxies or plastic, bondo that turns into a mess in a few years when it starts bubbling and slipping and sliding. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
and more along with the craftsman. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
It started much earlier, in 1956 at least: Michel May | Type 550 or Porsche 550 Michael May ? 10 Jahre zu früh | Endurance Racing & 1:43 The same Michael May did turbo conversions for the Ford Capri in 1969. In 1967 came the Chaparral with a spoiler: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaparral_Cars
Jimmy Clark died before the Lotus 49B high wing debut. The first F1 teams to sprout wings were Ferrari and Brabham at Spa in 1968. The first commercial/production car with a rear wing is probably the 1969 Dodge Charger Daytona.
Did any 3-liter Turbo owner's cars come with two Hirschmann cleaning wipes in the glove box? Image Unavailable, Please Login
Does anyone know the story behind Pete Rose's Turbo Carrera? It appeared in the Mar '77 Porsche + Audi Parade newsletter. Note the Cronins Porsche Audi plate frame in the photo. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
IIRC, Pete Rose had a DP that was for sale on Pelican. I can't remember the year. Perhaps his 77 was converted?
Ha, when I was a kid I saw a tricked out turbo in his garage in the Philly suburbs. I knew a kid who knew his kid.
I think it was traded in on the DP car, the DP car came from a dealer in Missouri. I remember my dad talking about no so pretty color green car he took on trade and I think the DP car was what was traded for. He said the car came in on a slope nose, he didn't specifically say it was a DP but in the early 80's what else could it have been?
That could be...perhaps he traded the Turbo Carrera on DP Turbo. Here's a link to a registry indicating an '86 was previously owned by Pete Rose. The DP935 Registry: DP Marketplace There may not be the same provenance for Pete Rose's Turbo Carrera but the Cronins Porsche Audi connection would be a good indicator that someone might have the car he previously owned.
Excellent thread. I've admired early Turbos for a while now. I've owned an 86 930 that was enhanced with full Ruf BTR parts and power...410whp, a couple of g body Carreras and a 94 964 Turbo 3.6. I'm actively looking for a 76-77 Turbo Carrera (since prices have seem to come down a bit). I've had a few people try and talk me out of it since they think I would get bored with the power. Honestly I drove one and think that it was a lot of fun plus the character the car exudes is very cool in my opinion. You guys seem to be very knowledgeable on these early Turbos. I'm learning every day. I'm hoping to get one in Silver but who knows if another color will appeal to me. If you guys know of someone looking to lighten up their load on a very nice example feel free to pm me or email me rflores0805@gmail dot com
ReyF - The nice examples are out there in the US but the owners are not selling at the current prices as most don't have to sell at current prices. One of the members in my club has a nice 76 930 Silver EU driver but is still asking $219k in the SBR/PCA magazine club magazine. It is mainly origional but not many cars remain completely origional after 40+ years. My car is largely restored but not in concours condition as I still drive it and didn't want a perfect garage queen. So the cars are out there but it takes a bit of looking but the folks with the best examples don't seem to be selling now or at least at reduced prices IMO. You might be better off looking for a little rougher car and have the work done or do it yourself but of coarse that is a project (my car took over a year). I believe the rougher cars are going at more reduced prices which may be more palatable to the wallet - just a thought.
Take my post as biased as I own several. That said, I watch the market closely as we all likely do and as you say, the market is down. But, the current early Turbo's on the market are ALL sub par in quality compared to the great cars in stronger hands. The weaker cars come to market often at the end of a cycle as people rush to sell them as the market rips. It isn't any different in equities as tops come when even the cheap stocks tear in price. The big boys lead and eventually, even the junk pops. That said, the cars on the market have serious needs. They either need paint, an interior, they have incorrect parts on them or need a full engine rebuild which can and will surpass $20k for a good build. You will get what you pay for and as Randy said, repairs, restorations, etc. can take at least a year if not more. If you want a 1976 or 1977 930, they can be had for as low at $125k (which I saw recently). To get that car from a driver to a beautiful example will easily cost 75k-125k with a mean average of 100k for body, mechanics, interior, etc. Sadly the car at 125k had the wrong tail, wrong wheels, an intercooler and a color change. Someone is selling a project 930 for sub 100k but it doesn't have the matching engine and needs literally everything. My again biased opinion is that really good cars start at 200k and go up from there. That said, we can't gauge that exactly as they aren't coming to market or maybe if they are, they are being traded behind the scenes. Since you have had other cars you likely full well know what you want. When it comes to low mile cars with history or with a rare color or color to sample, etc. prices tick up. Whatever you direction, those who are trying to talk you out of one of these hand made machines haven't spent enough time or maybe any time in one of these cars. I will own at least one until I am in the grave and having driven GT2's, GT3rs, and recently a friends brand new Turbo S, they don't touch the amazing connection of driving an early Turbo. Hopefully someone else can chime in as well. Best of luck in your search!
Yes, Jamie's answer is much more comprehensive and more thought out response than mine. My car was about $50k to redo but I was the owner since '79 and it was in very good condition before any work and only has 33k miles on the clock. The cars which I have seen as "bargains" that are not too bad are those which were after market slant nose conversions, usually botched and need a whole new front end. A member in my club sold one about 18 months ago for very sub 100k but it would have been a real project to bring it back as a good example for the period. But other than the conversion issues it was a OK driver. Most slant nose cars I have viewed were all after market conversions very few cars I have seen were even dealer conversions. I am not a fan on the slant nose for other than racing cars generally so I would like to see them all converted back to origional.
There are some real opportunities in the market right now for those that know what they are looking at.
