A buddy's uncle just paid 1.3 for a light blue tdf. Private sale, not at the auctions mentioned.
According to Bohnams, the buyer paid $880k. For ROW car with about 21k miles, and without Classiche in hand (they say its in process), I would say this is about correct. Maybe its a little bit light, but I don't know the condition of the car in question. Many of the ROW F40's I've seen are a bit rough, as their owners tended to drive they quite hard. The US mindset was a little different in many cases the owners saw these cars as collectibles. And today, they are!
It seemed like a nice sorted car to me with $30k of recent receipts and a Fresh Service from Miller Motorcars in Greenwich . That is correct $880 all in , but the seller only netted Approx $780 less the service plus fees. (Transport , cataloging , photos etc.) Plus the Red book fee.
That is true on both counts! But I think the mileage probably puts this more in the "driver"rather than the "collector" category. Also, I'm not 100% convinced the seller always pays the whole 10% in these deals. I've heard stories, but they are just that. So I think for our discussion I would grant your point.
How did the ratted out, primrose, jag xke do? There were quite a few messes for sale there, which shows that those cars are no longer worth restoring. I been going to Greenwich for years on and off. The one thing that never changes is it's not a concour for only the 100 pt entrants - it's what the founder's wanted the show to be. What I mean by that is they don't scrutinize cars. Many there are far from concour condition, but they are a great mix of beautiful designs. I think many of the cars they get for the auction are also of this category.
Seller's commission is usually negotiated, can be anywhere from 0-10%. If the auction house is having difficulty getting quality consignments they will offer more favorable terms.
I agree with that last bit. With regards to the USD, bar fluctuations, the past years have shown a generic deflation in dollar terms because worldwide uncertainty has made the USD stronger. Even with the same price in USD relative to a few years ago you'll be ahead 20-30%.
@375+ : Thank you. That's what I have been told by others as well, but not something I know as truly fact. I did not see the car so I don't know its condition, but as with all cars, condition is a very important factor.
Russo and Steele auction is not an indicator. Traditionally that newport auction is a bloodbath with an occasional shinning star... but usually a blood bath. I would never that particular auction house at that particular venue as an indicator
I agree that this auction is not the highest indicator , as apposed to RM Monterey and Gooding at Pebble which if they don't hit the ceiling there they will not. Scottsdale to me is second with Amelia slight 3rd. One would think Newport Beach at the beginning of summer season would be a Jackpot. There are so many car guys from Inland Empire , San Diego , LA , Malibu etc. and especially Orange County that it would be the perfect venue and time and place. RM Santa Monica should also be a great indicator. I know everyone wants to keep the best cars for the August events , but that is only one portion of the market, all cars cannot be garage queens to establish a true market value.
I agree with alot of what you said. Unfortunately Russo and Steele doesn't have a consistent enough of a following... and they have soured many many peoples opinions. I don't want to get into it... but if you ask people who have ran with them they can tell you. I have ran with them multiple times... twice at the newport auction. I like they guys over there.... and they are a local company to me... lets just say reality and expectations are different. I will say this.. they have never not paid me. They have never shorted me etc... I just haven't like the results. Also the check in process is terrible etc... They use volunteers and it shows. All I am trying to convey is that they do not have people clammoring to be in there auction like gooding and RM and even Mecum. Again, I like the staff. I like the local aspect of it. It just never works for me and well... Im not the only who says that. Now as far as the new port auction. June is traditionally one of the very worst months in the car business. It just is. People are dealing with kids getting out of school etc... and summer plans... People are just not in car buying mode in June. Its been that way since i have been in the car business. June sucks. December is hit or miss. Tax season is hit or miss. As far as using cars as the high water mark... What the gooding and RM cars (assuming that they are the highest water mark on offer) is they are "book ends" or at least thats what I call them. If the best is worth 100k. Then an 8 out of 10 car is worth 70k plus or minus. The gooding cars for example have a standard and they have a known. Trying to use data from an auction that allows consignors to write there own description is difficult. Somtimes "great condition" aint so great. Frame off restoration can mean... hit by a train and the only way to fix it was to do a frame off. Condition plays too large of a role and with RM and Gooding... you know they bring a premium because of the venue and you have a place to work from...
Of course we're in a bubble, but hard assets and collectibles will hold value better than equities and real estate. The black swan trade is a driver behind the collector market bubble. It's not about increased ROI, it's about mitigating losses. There will be some beauties coming up on the market at deep discounts once panic selling accelerates. I'm not expecting a large market correction for a few months, but it will happen. The reason is simple. China can no longer purchase US treasuries at the rate they were. The CB balance sheets are severely extended, and when you look at the collapse of the Bond yield curve it's obvious they're running out of rope. Without tapering, we could experience a similar collapse like the SNB floor coming off, so the markets absolutely need to adjust. The only question is, can they pull off a soft landing or do we go hard? Either way it will be a buyer's market for a couple of years once it does, so keeping some powder dry for when your dream car comes up makes more sense than buying now.
On one hand, I hope you're wrong. On the other hand I hope you're right! I think what you're saying makes sense. The only question is whether it accounts for everything. I think that's hard to do. We will see in time.
2nd F40 that sold for $870 today at RM Santa Monica, The Bonhams sold for $880 a few weeks ago so that is the market for a great driver.
The Bonhams car that just sold was a 15,000 mile US car. I think this is the lowest price we have seen for a while for a US model. Anyone wanting to own such an icon might want to seriously consider taking the plunge. There is an opportunity here I think because the market values a 15,000 miler as "high mileage" when in fact that is nothing for the car, it just means someone kept the car running with 1,000 miles a year! As 1992 fades further into the past, mileage will become less relevant for these cars imo. Other factors like service history and condition will be more relevant. I'm still looking for a 50,000km+ F40 in Europe. There are a few out there and they are cheap as chips. Just looking for the right one. I'd like to do an engine rebuild and see what condition the engine is in. My guess is that it will need very little.
Spot on. But to answer your question about a soft landing, ain't gonna happen. Human beings do what human beings do.
Yes, great looking car. RM Santa Monica F40 that sold for $870 + premium was US car 1992 Ferrari F40 | Santa Monica 2017 | RM Sotheby's
