Time for the FIA to make an example of Vettel?

Expected results.

 

Sigh again. You're like a trial lawyer trying to catch someone on a slip of word choice! I doubt Hamilton realized he was on trial when an interviewer stuck a microphone in his face during the post-race scrum. I am not interpreting Hamilton for you, but I would have no trouble believing an explanation that Hamilton used the words "consistent pace", then chose to clarify and be more specific by adding the clarification of "consistent deceleration".

Again, it's pretty funny that you keep going after me because I agreed with an analysis that suggested Hamilton's telemetry traces look very similar for the restarts, but you give Phil a pass for saying "conspiracy theory because the FIA never released the telemetry" (for which you posted a "+1"), even though he was completely incorrect in that the telemetry was broadly available as I posted, shooting down the conspiracy theory at its base.

At any rate - I didn't say they were identical, I agreed with interpretations that they were similar and that the telemetry indicated that there was no excessive braking on restart 2 versus restarts 1 or 3. Any further questions, Mr. Trial Lawyer? I am an engineer, and perhaps my definition of mostly similar in the context of race car speeds behind a safety car might b different than yours. I'm also not an expert witness in this field, Mr. Attorney!

I am an engineer and happy to discuss from an engineering perspective where I have a reasonable understanding, but I'm not a fanatic for either driver involved. I agree with your statement otherwise, which is why I'm not actually bothered trying to get further into this rather ridiculous debate to try to convict Hamilton.

Yes, it was investigated, and the race stewards already published their findings that Hamilton did not do anything wrong in his actions leading the pack for safety car restart #2 or 1 or 3. It was explained - no fault assigned to Hamilton, notwithstanding random and bizarre conspiracy theories ("no telemetry! OMG!!") that appeal to fans who dislike Hamilton (there, I didn't use the H word) and will post "+1" to such weird thoughts even though they are pure fantasy.

I'll post this clarification, again - I'm not a Hamilton fanboy, I respect and enjoy watching his tremendous driving talent along with the other great drivers on the grid (Vettel, Kimi, Verstappen, Ricciardo, and several more - not Massa). I'd love to see a close title fight this year, and I'd especially like to see Ferrari win. My preference would be for Kimi, but I'm equally happy if Vettel can win it, and realistically it will be Vettel if anyone. I think Vettel's temper cost him the win in Baku, and he threw away 12 critical points in the title fight through pure stupidity. I don't need to invent excuses to blame Hamilton for Vettel's stupidity, it was 100% Vettel's own fault - the collision, and the following road rage penalty.

 

Oh...trying to be sarcastic, aren´t we...
You realize that quit often one has to "correct" or "justify" something when Lewis opened his mouth and tell the world what he actually meant. Wait...that does sound familiar in recent times...

Aha...you "agree" on an analyse now...until now it sounded more like you have the "facts" we simply do not understand because we do not know the "F1 safety car restart procedures"
But you really have to show me where I commented Phils post promting you to say "I give it a pass" ???

Trying being sarcastic again "Mr.Engineer"??? Fail...

And I am a "fanboy" of reasonable logic and arguments and if someone says graphs look very similar although they are different I do not see any reasoning, neither by the standards of a lawyer, an engineer or a mathematician...

 

My apologies, Peter, on review I see that you were not among those giving a +1 to Phill's strange missing telemetry conspiracy theory. There were quite a few who did, though, so just for fun, here's the people who applauded the strange missing telemetry theory:

In response to your other point,

We will have to agree to disagree here, as I still see those traces as being similar enough to indicate that Hamilton did nothing unusual along the lines of excessive deceleration or a brake test on restart 2.

Cheers,
Gordon

 

How can this debate possibly be rolling on? The FIA have ruled (correctly in my opinion). They have far more data and testimony than the rather simple data trace and interview extracts we have seen. It's over. Move on.

 

All good

Yes, exactly. We both have different opinions and I think one can have different opinions on that. All I say it that it is not as clear as some want to make us believe. This is why it was under investigation!
I think the problem is that there are no clear rules for the restart and most likely Lewis did something to provoke a reaction (braking, overtaking...) from Vettel and most likely the stewards saw that and thought he was penalized enough...

 

Leave me out of your argument, just cause you are out of your depth

 

Nope - if Phill wants to post a looney theory about unreviewed, missing, or not released telemetry that conveniently ignores that telemetry was reviewed by the stewards during the race and that the telemetry was in fact released and even posted in this very thread prior to his theory; AND if you want to agree with and praise his "well thought out" theory...

Then we get to make fun of you as well as Phill!

 

People here act like Hamilton invented brake checking.
I think the practice is idiotic but everyone on the grid knows the game.
Yes Hami did it in a blind slow corner and caught Vettel with his pants down.
Vettel hit Hami, got pissed and moved over and hit hami's in the side.

IMO no BFD all the way around. 10 seconds was more than enough penalty.

Vettel has done his fair share of brake checking in the past. No outrage then. Funny that.

PS; A big Plus One on this being a F1 section not a Ferrari group think session.
I own a Ferrari but it doesn't blind me to what is going on on the track or with the sport in general.
If the Tifosi want to get offended at every Hami "slight" that's their problem.
Frankly it gets old.
I used to love this section but those that froth at the mouth ruined it.

 

If that's the reason for your post, I'd suggest that you are getting personal. If that's the case, I'd suggest you don't argue, then claim no knowledge or expertise in the fields you are arguing. That kinda tends to make you look less than ingenious. I know that Mercedes internally are scared elton is going to get caught out if this gets looked at further, I heard that from a well qualified observer WITHIN Mercedes. Pays to have friends on the grid, then you aren't speculating

 

OK thanks Gordon. I've been watching live in person and on DVR for more than 8 years. I have to admit my ignorance or lack of understanding. I went off about the whole thing and posted a rant rather than ask questions.

I've been spending more time on the Giulia Quadrifoglio I finally ordered

And you know, I think the uphill left-hander with the grade effect is what caught Vettel out. It looks like he stayed on the gas while Hamilton coasted. I think the telemetry shows that, even in the slightest bit. Vettel screwed up...twice, but I hope he now can "cut the crap" and drive the car to it's potential. Kim has been faster than him too.

Thanks for the correction. I'll try to ask before I rant in the future

 

I'm looking at one of those tomorrow for a new daily, haven't driven it yet but reviews are good. What's the spec you are going for? The one I'm seeing is competizione rosso with black everything else

 

That's common and will be a short wait. The dark wheels are in now but a bit of a fad in my opinion. I prefer bright wheels for the long haul and for the classic look.

I ordered Rosso Comp, black/ice interior with white/green stitching. Carbon wheel. Regular seats and brakes. Bright 5 holes and yellow calipers. Full safety and assists. Front collision and Harmon Kardon on now standard on MY2018s. Should arrive between October and March. Inside chatter says around December.

 

Oh, and just for the record...
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Exactly - Time to move on

 

He did not overtake LH; he only got even with him. And yes, pun intended as well.

This reminds me of the Senna vs Prost feud. One you always know where he stands, and has temper issues. The other is a sneaky SOB that knows how to play the system. Figure out which is which. He he.

 

It's a long way to travel to get to the point. I think the initial impact would have simply been ruled a "lack of concentration/racing incident" without the second collision. Regarding Hamilton's intentions, is it more credible to a) believe that he drove in such a way as to cause Seb to collide with him and risk being knocked out of the race or b) think that he drove in such a way as to interrupt SV's ability to draft/pass him on the long straight into turn 1?

Regardless, that part is not critical to the penalty and further investigation. What was critical was that SV lost his cool, hit a competitor in a fit of anger and was unrepentant about it. His apology fulfilled what the FIA needed...they didn't want to take points or further penalize him and change the WDC dynamics.

Just my $.02

 

+1

 

+1

 

The entertaining and astute Ricci -

Ricciardo backs FIA decision not to punish Vettel further for Baku - F1 - Autosport

...Ricciardo, who went on to win in Azerbaijan, thinks the whole situation was escalated by the fact that Hamilton did not triumph because of his headrest problem.

Writing in his official Red Bull column, Ricciardo said: "There's a view going around that Seb got off lightly with the penalty he got, but to me, that's only because he ended up beating Lewis.

"And that only happened because Lewis had his own issues with the headrest.

"If that hadn't happened and Lewis won, which he looked like was going to, and Seb was, say, fifth or something, then there wouldn't be as much noise about it....

 

So you've moved on then? - Good!



Oh hang on:

 

He doesnt need to 'mean' it. Its over they decided. Its words that will be soon forgotten no matter his intent. Ricci has the right attitude about this as posted.