Why a Stick Shift Defines the Driver

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Talked to someone yesterday with a classic, 365 Daytona, I think, who was proud it had 8,000 miles on it. He was floored that I had 8,500 miles on my Cali in a year.

Drive what you enjoy, enjoy what you drive. Don't worry what other people are doing with their car...T

 

A very nice video explaining how a DCT works:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOciX6kdexE[/ame]

 

I believe I confused matter by saying dct. Lets just change that to automatic trans. Have an electronic clutch pedal and h pattern shifter on it. Can use it as an auto or switch to stick

 

At risk of more confusion....

to dgs
You say dct would need 2 pedals and 2 sticks yet they only have 1 set of paddles. Just like a sct f1 or tiptronic torque converter. Pull single paddle sets everything in motion

in my hypothetical setup stepping on clutch or moving stick would be no different than pulling on paddle. Would set same process into same motion and car would shift gears


Have you ever used a simulator like fanatec? It allows for either 3 pedal stick shift OR 2 pedal paddle shifts. Thats what im advocating for in real car

 

The clutch and lever would have zero feel. If all I'm doing with a clutch is engaging a micro switch and the lever does the same, then paddles are just as good. I want less fake in my cars not more.

 

im sure you can simulate the feel of clutch electronically same way they can with steering and braking. and you would still get to heel toe. im happy with paddles but i think technology can now provide both in same car

 

If you can't blow a shift, it's not real.


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I wonder if this will be a new specialty business. Making post F430 and Murcielago /LP640 Ferraris and Lamborghinis stick shift....for those that just want it and are willing to pay.

Shamile

Freeze. . . Miami Vice!

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The subject that will not, cannot die....

 

There are specialty shops converting F1-based Ferraris to 6-speed gated shifters. It is already happening.

 

Because the paddles just signal to the computer to shift. At that point, the computer selects gears and controls the clutches.

If you wanted to actually control the operation manually, you'd need three arms and four legs.

Thus my comment about replacing the paddles with a rube golberg complexity: a stick and pedal and several motions in order to push a button.

But you wouldn't really be controlling the transmission, any more than you would with paddles.

The twin clutch transmissions still shift when you tell it to -- it's just easier to tell it.

And, yes, you can still "blow a shift" by pulling a paddle at the wrong time.

(I did a bit of that on the street, before I got used to down-shifts as immediate as up.
I'd gotten sloppy on the street -- I'd push in the clutch early and downshift while drifting, and then match and declutch later. Something you can do on a leisurely sunday drive, but a bad habit when you want top performance.
So the twin clutch made me drive better in the manual cars.)

I've used a simulator of an interstellar spacecraft, but that doesn't mean we can really build one.

A twin clutch and a manual are two disparate approaches to the same task.

A bicycle and a car will get you where you're going, but you don't expect to have both in one vehicle.
(Pedaling uphill while dragging around a two ton car would be quite the exercise. )

 

I'd have zero interest in that. Significantly less interest than paddles behind the wheel, which make perfect sense. Your proposal does not make it a manual. It makes it a complicated way of hitting a switch and then needs more complicated equipment to make it feel like you're not just hitting a switch. Would rule a car off my list immediately.

 

Agreed

 

If the demand for the gated shifter was not there then why a $30k plus premium for them on used Ferraris ?

The ones dissing the gated shifter calling them dinosaurs never learned to shift properly or can't, it takes coordination and practice to drive and shift properly, F1s are truly boring automatic transmissions taking away one of the most satisfying elements of the classic Ferraris the precise click gated shifter

 

I turned 16 in 1968. This means I grew up in the mechanical era. How many of you know how to start a car with a carburetor? How many of you have had the brake pedal go to the floor without stopping? How many of you have done a four-wheel drift on skinny tires all on your own? Yeah, I'm a Dino. I admit it. But, I'm gonna go out swinging, which means there is not a current model Ferrari I would be willing to buy.

 

Because they're rare and collectors value rarity so there is profit to be made there. Imo its not because of how they drive

 

Horses for courses - for fun, my gated 308 with doubledeclutch downshifts is heaven; driving down the highway, 'point and squirt' auto (I use rentals for this since I can't bring myself to own such a thing!)

 

LOL! You're not alone out there... lots of us down my way.

 

We could automate every function of the car, (steering, braking, etc...) and the car would outperform any human driver. But what's the enjoyment in that?

A manual is still a requirement for me as well.

Flappy paddles are just glorified slushboxes.

 

I was 15 in 1968. I was not well off and had to maintain my own $200 cars or walk. So I think I could probably fix anything on a 60s car. But that doesn't mean I would want to today. Yes I agree every 60s car had an interesting body style and looked much more unique than today's homogenized cars. But they were mechanical dinosaurs compared to today's cars. I could drive any stick from double clutching a logging truck to a 58 Desoto to 63 split window Vet. But that doesn't mean I want to today.

It's like saying you were 16 in 1918 and so a horse and buggy is a preferred mode of transportation over an automobile. Clearly only if you are into nostalgia.

In my humble opinion a F1 paddle shifter is light years ahead of any stick I have ever driven and the only way I would own a 60s car today would be as a restomod.

 

Totally disagree, I have driven the F1s they are boring vs a gated shifter. People are getting conned if they think a 360 is gonna be a collector car of any value in the next 20 years made way too many of them . Even the most mundane modern cars Nissans and Chevys have paddle shifter automatics now.

 

People should get into the oily bits before drawing generalities.

Not all paddles are created equal.
An F1 is not a paddle automatic is not a twin clutch.

The F1 was not a good sequential transmission. But it was "early days".
The time when it was like a bear on a bicycle: it's not how well he rides, it's that he can do it at all.

But modern transmissions have come a long way, baby.

Several "mundane" manufacturers have moved from slush boxes to paddleless automatic-only mode twin clutches for the sake of CAFE standards.
It rids them of the torque converters, in hopes of improving fuel mileage.
FCA had plans to build Getrag gearboxes, under license, in the US, as several Chrysler products had gone with Getrag boxes.
But those plans fell through when FCA and Getrag couldn't agree to terms.
Instead, Chrysler is building a variant of the ZF 8HP paddle controlled automatic, in addition to ZF's plant in South Carolina.
(That may be why the Giulia, for the US, only get the ZF 8HP auto.)

I have both a gated shifter 5-speed manual 328, and a 6-speed Getrag twin clutch in the EVO X.
They each have their place, and I enjoy both.

And I feel no less in control of shifts with the Getrag paddles than with the gated shifter.
It's just a different set of rites involved in the "ritual of shifting".
("Oh Great Father Enzo, Hear our click-snick." )

Just remember: nobody talks about being "up the creek without a gated shifter".

 

Don't misunderstand. I don't want a car from the sixties. But, I do prefer the mechanical feel of a shifter to any F1 or DCT. I once owned a F550 and it was a hoot to drive, although you could just leave it in 3rd around town. I also drove a F575 with paddles and found it boring. What was the point?

And yes, I've had a DCT car, a 2009 Cayman. It was a blast on the track, but I still prefer a stick for the street. So if I was in the market for a new sports car, there is nothing in the current Ferrari lineup that would interest me. Frankly, I'm positive Ferrari could care less what enthusiasts like me think. They would probably still sell everything they make even if they made them fully autonomous. It's just not for me.


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I was one of the 3% that bought a manual 430. When it came time to sell in '09 I couldn't give it away and as I said only a 3% take rate on the manual which was the last mid engined V8 with a stick.
Sure they're now some that will pay a premium for the last of the manuals, but the world has changed and manuals are not coming back anytime soon.
Deal with it.

 

in 09 the used Ferrari market probably wasnt aware those looking for a modern Ferrari would have very limited options for a Ferrari with a gated shifter, now we are full into F1s since the 360 came out and the majority of cars since are F1s, that leaves the F355s and F348s if you want a decent selection of Ferraris with gated shifters and quite frankly those cars are old school the newer models light years ahead in performance.

Porsche gets it with some stick only models, Ferrari can't seem to grasp the concept and thinks we all need F1s as we are all gonna paper race these cars and need to save that .005 second on that imaginary lap. Maybe they know there market better than me a bunch of rich guys that don't even drive there cars and when they do need all the help they can get having the car shift and blip the throttle for them driving down Sunset Blvd trying to look cool LOL.

I have been looking for a modern 360,430,599 with a gated shifter but the premiums are huge $30k-$60k plus vs F1, I have come to the conclusion I am stuck with a F1, the gated shifter is not worth that much over a F1 which is why I haven't bought one yet, getting a F1 no thanks.