Why a Stick Shift Defines the Driver

I realize that, just saying the novelty of the paddle is over nothing new or special about it, even though the F1 may shift faster than some Nissan.

 

Nothing to deal with. The new Ferraris have no appeal to me. I'll just move on to something else.

 

Well I wish someone had given me an F430 with a gated manual. It is one of my all-time dream cars in that configuration.

I think part of the reason the F1 single-clutch transmission was so popular is because it was the newest thing at the time. Same reason why the exotic automakers then went to dual-clutch automatics; it was the latest and greatest thing.

Now, however, DCTs are becoming common in regular cars; Acura, Audi, Ford, Hyundai, and VW all offer relatively inexpensive vehicles with dual-clutch automatics, so the novelty of owning a car with a dual-clutch automatic is beginning to wear off. Couple that with the widespread diminishing availability of manual transmissions due to the rise in application of dual-clutch automatics, and it's no wonder why people want manuals again.

 

No-one has/is/will argue that the F1 isn't light years ahead of the manual - it is, in the same way that in-vitro is the most efficient way to conceive a child. I'm not giving up on the more involving experience any time soon, for either endeavor -if anything, I plan on practicing the conception effort, despite being fully prevented from it ever bearing fruit.

 

The newest generation of the Smart ForTwo has a DCT. Impressive, huh?

 

You know all this 3-pedal talk reminds me of an episode of the Jersey Shore when they went to Florence, Italy.

In the rental cars Snooky was driving...

she was the only one in the bunch that could drive a stick!

 

I was born in 78. To all of your questions, yes.

 

Fwiw, there's not a big gap in performance between F355/360.

 

Just came across this thread and I'm on the first page...

A gated 458 would be as foolish as an F1 250 GTO

No offense my friend

In all serious, I'm so sick of this gated vs F1 never ending debate. I'd make a political reference but I'd be banned

As speeds have increased and technology has advanced, F1 transmissions fell right into place.

 

Why do you think so?

 

But, did ever occur to Ferrari that some customers are more interested in a fun street car than a thinly disguised race car? On the fun roads around me, i.e. , two-lane back roads, the speed limit is 65. There are some deputy dawgs who consider 20 over to be street racing. You do the math.


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Before you answer. These are dyno results from a GT3 and a 458. Almost identical vehicle weight, horsepower, rpm and power curves.

If a gated 458 would be foolish, better tell everyone to roll their stick GT3's and 911R's into the dumpster as well
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Many reasons. Have you driving a 458? The DCT is absolutely insane!!! You pull the lever and think a rocket is strapped to the back!! That is the advancement of technology which suits a 458.

My 98 355 F1 shifts amazingly fast but nothing like a DCT. So, the single plate dry clutch and rawness fits the 355 and the era of the car. I just can't imagine a gated 458. It's like a modern car with an 8 track.

Jim, you can shift a gated car probably faster than anyone I've ever seen. I respect that and I too like to gear jam once and a while but for people to make the claims than an F1 car is boring is total baloney. I get mass excitement from driving an F1 and having super quick, accurate shifts, both hands on the wheel and focused.

 

No. Has it occurred to you Ferrari sales are not hurting? I guess they might be in demand, sticky parts and all

 

Jim - you could not give me a P car

Should Formula one go back to a gated shifter?

 

I suffer no illusions. Ferrari could care less about any of its customers, much less me. I'm convinced Ferrari would still sell out even if all the cars were autonomous. They're in the same place Harley was 20 years ago. It doesn't matter what they make, it will still sell out, until it doesn't. Mark my words, we'll see Ferrari making 20,000 cars a year as soon as they can ramp up. It is always about the money.


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That may be so, just saying that if you compare the two and see the power/torque curve/weight/rpm is nearly the same, it's not entirely ridiculous to think that a stick 458 would have been a great car.

Is a brand new 911R or GT3 with a stick like having a new car with an 8 track just because of the trans?

I never said F1 or DCT is boring, just that I prefer manual.

 

This a really another discussion, personally, I believe Sergio will destroy Ferrari.

My point is about the advancement of technology. Why don't we go backwards with brakes, suspension, tires, etc?

And you did not answer my question - have you driven a 458?

 

Sure it occurred to them, but turns out those customers were too few and far between to be worth designing a separate transmission, the death knell was the miniscule take rate of the gated California. If more than 8 people had ordered one, maybe they'd still be an option.

The customers that buy new Ferraris overwhelmingly don't want a gated shifter, and Ferrari doesn't build their cars for the 2nd or 3rd owner.

The fact that not a single 458 has been converted is proof of that. If there was such a huge demand, somebody would pony up for a 430 trans and gated shifter to retrofit. To the enthusiast that can (really) afford a new Ferrari that really wants it, the cost wouldn't be prohibitive as I bet it'd be less than a highly optioned new 488.

If you want a manual 458, go build it! If you've got the money for a 488 (or other new Ferrari) you should have little trouble doing it financially and given that there are (apparently) a large number of enthusiasts that want one, you won't lose money. Buy a 458, get a 430 trans and then mate them up. I believe the steps to convert a 430 to gated are on this board, should be a good starting point once you have the trans.

 

I'm not being paid for my lap times on the street so the f-1 point isn't relevant.

There are safety reasons for better brakes that don't apply to shift times.

There are certainly cars that are better (more fun) with less sticky tires.

So much of the mystique is not about real life driving at all but bench and bar racing. Think of all the teenagers who would be upset if a newer car wasn't quicker and faster than the previous model.

 

I have a TON of fun with my F1 on the street. So, yes, it's still relevant as the point is still advancement of technology.

 

Advancement in technology to make the car faster or more enjoyable?

Electric cars are advancement in technology though I would never own an electric sports car either.

I've driven many dct cars but not a 458 (though I had an offer to do so). Probably never will.

Do not like the feel of dct, it is of zero interest to me personally.

Is there a great many people saying they would prefer to go "go backwards" on brakes suspension and tires? I suspect not.

I am not one of them though I will always prefer manual trans.

And yes, I think F1 would be much more interesting if they went back to a manual trans. Honestly the only F1 footage I've ever watched is from the older cars.

I don't race my 355, I drive it on the street. If I even did a track day once a year the trans would make zero difference to me.

That being the case, a manual trans on the street -for me- is ideal as I have clutch control and the ability to skip gears. And, I just like everything about the experience.

As to the racing aspect, the 2018 ZL1 Camaro with a manual trans is faster around the Nurburgring than a 458 and 488 so trans type isn't going to be a deal breaker as far as lap times if that's what you're really after. (If I was, I would have a race car and race it)

 

Drive a 458, Jim

 

Speeds and computer/transmission technology have increased so much that the actual driver has become irrelevant. Traditional automatics can now shift at least as quickly (if not more quickly) than a DCT, and most automated transmissions can shift at more optimal shift points than the driver can (so basically, let the car shift itself if you want maximum performance).

Considering that missing a shift or two in a Formula 1 race can cost you the chance of winning that race, I definitely wouldn't be opposed to seeing F1 go back to manuals. I personally have very little interest in F1 right now because everything is so monotonous and mistake-free.

 

Dave, honestly I'm just not interested.