2017 FORMULA 1 ROLEX BRITISH GRAND PRIX: RACE *** SPOILERS ***

So we start counting the 3 WDC he was driving against: Alonso, Button and Rosberg

ROSBERG??? So you say Hamilton is to be praised for beating Nico who won his WDC against him???
So because Nico beat Lewis in 2016 makes driving against him worth more (because now he is WDC) than if Lewis would have won instead because he would not have beaten "a WDC" in that case??? I have heard a lot of unreasonable arguments from the Hamilton followers but this is by far the best...

So to put that logic on Vettel: Vettel did not achieve that much because he won 4 times against Weber who never won a WDC. Vettel should instead have handed a WDC over to Weber because in this case "he would have beaten a WDC 3-1". Sounds very logic

 

Stop it..you're making sense!!!

 

Sorry, my bad...

 

How can I be sexist? I feel like a lady today. I have to go to Target to go to the bathroom though.

Oh. By the way. Wifey said I can give it up to you (one way or t'other) if I'm in whichever mood. Anybody disputes; I'm gonna sue...I have my rights, don't you know...

(edit: Oh, by the way', I just re-watched "Deliverance". One of us can squeal if we prefer.... )

 

A few corrections for your post, tied Alonso on points, was outscored by Button when they were teammates by a driver that many said only won becuase of the questionably legal Brawn blown diffuser and then lost to Rosberg in their last year as teammates in a 2 car world championship that ran from 2014-2016.

 

Guarantee you're under age 25. Typical "new money" Hamilton fan.

LOL

 

I'm neither 25 nor new money (I wish I was both) yet I agree with many of his points.

 

Shocker eh? On a ferrari forum the majority of us love ferrari, and some people think it's their duty to try to change us.... there are of course collective terms for those odd people but I'm way too polite to say them

 

Fair enough - here's my take:

1.) MSC had just as much to do with Merc's dominance as Hamilton (basically nothing). The engineers that came up with the V6T they have deserve most of it along with the Merc board willing to inject metric **** tons of cash into the program. That said MSC did actually have a huge hand in building two teams, Benetton and Ferrari. Turned both into power houses. Hamilton has built zero.

2.) Schumacher may have been ruthless on the track, but off it he was a great person. Donated huge sums of money to charity, great family man, and complete professional. Never bad mouthed anyone. Never did anything stupid off track. Does that mean he is a better "person" than Hamilton? I don't want to say because I don't know either on a personal level but you could certainly make the case that he was

3.) Lewis has had tougher teammates, no doubt. That said MSC destroyed his teammates. No one was ever close to him. However, Barrichello gave Button all he could handle and Button scored more points than LH during their time as teammates. LH has never blown any teammate into the weeds except for Kovalainen who was not any good and didn't last in F1. Rosberg is a WDC now but a lot of people thought he was a journeyman. Lewis struggled with him. He was better but the difference was very small. He is now struggling with Bottas who did not blow Massa away by any means.



My 2 cents

 

agreed

Outside the cockpit MS was a great man. Inside not so much. In fact down right dirty and horrible (and you don't need to ask me, just look at the FIA's decisions). Hamilton in comparison is a cleaner driver. Not an angel, but definitely cleaner. Hamilton off track seems to be a jerk, but quite frankly I don't give a damn.

I used to be a huge MS fan but he has pulled way too many "stunts" on track. The final breaking point for me was parking at Rascasse and then having the arrogance to deny it despite telemetry data proving him a liar.

I'm not really counting the Rosberg WDC for anything. Seriously. That aside yes, MS blew his #2 into the weeds. But he also had a much bigger say in who they were. Regardless I don't really care about what the #1 driver does to the #2. Ricci beat Seb one year, so what.

Bottom line is that MS with 7 WDC is The GOAT. No question there. But Lewis ain't bad either with 3 WDCs. Both are polarizing figures and thus both were/are good for the sport. We don't need robots winning but people fans can love or hate.

 

Button beat Alonso in the standings too in 2015 are you also going to tell me that therefore he is better? Not without ignoring context as you have just done when referring to Hamilton's teammates. I could also ignore context and tell you that Rosberg is GOAT because 1) he is a world champion and 2) he beat Schummacher and Hamilton in the same car. But I'm not gonna do that because I'm a sensible person.
However I'm going to say Rosberg is indeed or was a very tough competitor and was highly rated by his peers up and down the paddock not least by Hamilton himself who had this to say about him way back in 2011 before there was even a remote chance that they would be teammates:

Former F1 World Champion Lewis Hamilton has revealed the names of the three drivers he believes to be his greatest rivals on the grand prix grid – and McLaren-Mercedes team-mate and fellow title-winner Jenson Button is not amongst them.

When asked by Spanish newspaper El Pais who he rates as the most talented competitors currently in the top flight – aside from himself – Hamilton listed Mercedes Grand Prix adversary and former karting sparring-partner Nico Rosberg, defending F1 World Champion and early-season runaway pace-setter Sebastian Vettel and Ferrari's Fernando Alonso, with whom he fell out so spectacularly when the pair were teamed up together at McLaren back in 2007, the British star's maiden campaign at the highest level.

“We all believe we are the best, and that's what you have to do, unless you like to finish second,” the 26-year-old underlined. “[The best] are Alonso, Vettel and Rosberg, who I've known since I was 13. He (Rosberg) is about to burst through and he will at any time. Sebastian is in a great period with Red Bull and has a lot of confidence.
Read more at F1 News - Lewis Hamilton names his three biggest rivals

 

That link was in 2011.........things have changed a bit since then!

 

That is the point though and you missed it. TifosiUSA is trying to diminish Rosberg claiming he was a journeyman, but according to other drivers as long ago as 2011 he was a real contender just without the tools at that point in time. And we all know the reason he is diminished by posters here is because they feel that it in turn diminishes Hamilton's achievement of beating him 3 out of 4 seasons. Anything to take credit away from Hamilton.
Look at it this way. There was once a time when Rosberg was in the same situation as Hulkenberg is in now. Everybody is convinced he is of world championship material including most pundits, most F1 journalist, past and current drivers and most F1 fans. But in Rosberg's case he fulfilled that promise but instead of celebrating him posters here bash him as an indirect assault on Hamilton.

 

For the last four years, elton fans, not ferrari fans, have been telling us rosberg was ****, elton is the best etc etc, all of a sudden, an elton fan comes on telling us rosberg was a worthy champion, whilst denigrating the GOAT, who happens to be a Ferrari legend, on a Ferrari site. You don't see our bull**** sensors going off and why?

We have argued till we are blue in the face that rosberg is very talented, that elton barely beat him for two seasons, and that shows that elton is no better than rosberg - that's a fact. Elton did not beat button, he did not beat Alonso despite the entire team doing everything short of hiding the keys to alonsos car to make him win. Michael would have smashed him out of sight in a race in their primes, as would Senna, Clark, villenueve, Prost, and many many others that have and had far more talent that elton. Alonso, ricciardo, verstappen (even this early) and vettel are better right now, it's down to the car that creates his wins, as demonstrated by bottles, who could barely beat a 90-yr old massa, is beating him regularly despite having just ten outings in the car

My wife's best friend calls me Mamba, and it wasn't cos im sneaky like a snake. She still whispers it in my ear if she wants to have a little fun

 

I agree, however Barrichello had peaked when teaming up with Jenson. He was is in prime when he was at Ferrari. Could of been world champion, IMO he was better then Rosberg and Button. Massa was no slouch either.

 

Good shout, ferrari had lots of faith in massa, he was a great prospect, and was doing great until his head injury, where I think, like many others do, that he suffered an entirely understandable subconscious issue that took that tiny part of his makeup that makes you a winner, he was never the same. Elton fans should remember, he was very very lucky to win in 2008, the title was thrown away by ferrari in pit stops.

Barrichello, absolutely, a very very good racer from his younger days right through, he was highly regarded by Senna and many who really know formula one, and was groomed throughout to get to ferrari (not many drivers are actually pursued by ferrari - elton isn't!). His partnership with Michael, although contractural for the good of the team, and because Michael had earned his status, he was there to ride shotgun for Michael, sweep up the places when Michael couldn't, and, on occasion, raced freely albeit with a plan in mind to maximise ferrari/Michaels targets

If Michael were not around, both drivers were capable of championships, and should be respected

 

Rosberg was good, but not great, the level of drivers today are not as good as in the 90's and early 2000's. Alonso is still by far the best driver on the grid and still think Kimi is better then Vettel and Hamilton when he has a good car under him. By the way, Rosberg had a hard time beating Schumacher when he was in his 40's.

 

+1

 

Massa also lost course of the mechanical failure of the engine at Hungary. He was on set to win when his engine blew up with just 3 laps to go. He had plenty of instances to win the championship though he had plenty of bad luck that prevented that from happening. He honestly should of won but all that bad luck happened despite all that he only lost it by 1 point at the end.

 

Absolutely. Massa is, and always has been, an absolute gentleman (as has barrichello), met him a number of times, and always always had a smile for his team and fans.. Brazil 2008 was horrendous - winning the race, only to have glock stop trying four hundred yards from the end to gift elton fifth place. Massa, and ferrari, thoroughly deserved the title that year

 

Agreed especially that year's Ferrari was great. The last of Ferrari's f1 cars which I think earned the right to the maque's name. Next year car was garbage and after that cars was ok competive, but no were as strong as the 2008 car. Fast and topped every car that year in the WCC including the MP4/23 the F2008 was definitely a altogether machine that would of won the world driver's championship of which it would of if the team didn't suffer from horrible luck during that year.

 

A little fortunate in 2008 and a little unfortunate in 2007. That's the way sport goes; the margins are small and history is unforgiving.

 

I've lost the train of this conversation over the last few posts, but here is an obvious truth when it comes to ranking these drivers:-

MSC>Ham>Ros>Massa.

It's that simple isn't it?

 

It should be i think...

 

Shall we start to make the list of drivers who were very "lucky" to win a title ?

You will find Hamilton is in very good company.

BTW, some of them were even Ferrari drivers !!! LOL