2017 FORMULA 1 ROLEX BRITISH GRAND PRIX: RACE *** SPOILERS ***

Ok we can start the list with...





Nicole?

 

Mike Hawthorn, WDC in 1958 with FERRARI by 1 point. In the last GP, he was disqualified for driving against traffic during the race (after he spun), but reinstated thanks to Stirling Moss who pleaded with the stewards. Moss could have won the WDC, but literally gave it away to Hawthorn.

Phil Hill, WDC in 1961 with FERRARI. Team mate Von Trips was leading the championship up to Monza, where he crashed and died. Phil Hill won the Italian GP and inherited the title.

Graham Hill, WDC in 1962 with BRM. The title was to be decided at the last GP between Jim Clark and Graham Hill. Clark was leading on points and was ahead in the race, until a gearbox plug fell of his car and he had to abandon. Graham Hill inherited the race, and won the title.

John Surtees, WDC with FERRARI in 1964. The title was to be decided at Mexico between Graham Hill and Surtees. Graham Hill was leading the championship and on his way to take the crown during the race. Surtees' team mate, Lorenzo Bandini rammed the back of G.Hill's car, and broke its exhaust. G.Hill had to abandon and John Surtess took the title. Some said that Bandini was ordered to stop G.Hill by team manager Dragoni.

Graham Hill, WDC with Lotus in 1967. Only Jim Clark and Graham Hill had the Ford DFV engine at the back of their Lotus. The car dominated the field. Jim Clark was killed in Hockenheim, and Graham Hill took the title without much opposition.

among others

James Hunt, WDC with McLaren. Hunt took the title the year rival Nikki Lauda had his horrific crash at the Nurburgring and missed 3 GPs. Hunt won the title by 1 point at the last GP when Lauda withdrew. He never repeated the same form, unlike Nikki who won 2 more titles.

Keke Rosberg, WDC with Williams. Rosberg drove an atmospheric Williams against turbo Ferrari and Renault. On a less powerful car, he won his title through reliability by gathering points at most races where his rivals had engine failures, and was on his way to be the first WDC to win the title on points only, but had a very unlikely win towards the end. Some of his rivals had several wins.

I am sure there are more if we look at it in detail.

The fact is that winning within the rules is still winning.

 

Yep, don't doubt it. Doesn't make elton the GOAT though, does it

 

However, Hamilton is the only one i can remenber winning a title in a championship were a race was proven to be rigged, a complete fraude and still was considered for the championship, thus deciding the title.

 

There is no such thing as "the GOAT".

You cannot compare drivers from different eras, under different formulae, etc...

It's absolutely pointless to try.

 

... "I can remember " ... is the important precision in your post.

 

All these guys with a couple or more WDC can be considered as one of the GOAT ,up until now,take your own personal pick. It will be a never ending debate.

 

Do you haver another example?

 

Yep, it's pretty much down to personal choice.

It's a bit like deciding who's the best general, or the best head of state, etc...

The logic says you cannot do it.

 

Not on top of my head, I must say.

But anyway, Hamilton wasn't part of the Renault conspiracy at Singapore that cost Massa a probable podium, nor did McLaren asked Glock to slow down in the last lap of the last GP to give more points to their driver.
These were just racing incidents that even the onlookers didn't analyse at the time.
Therefore I don't understand why people tend to denigrate Hamilton's first title.
There were other drivers, but he was a strong contender all season and he was the best placed to pick up the pieces. His title was well deserved, IMO.
Insight is a marvellous thing, but you just don't benefit from it when you are at the heart of the action.

 

..Maybe because if justice had been aplyed, that race would have been discarded since it was a fraude, and withoout it Massa would have been champion. He lost teh title because of the cheating actions of a third party, those actions led to the adulteration of that race results, therefore it should not be considerate, same as if a football match is fixed and one of the teams loses on purpose..it's called cheating, and even if hamilton was not involved, he won the title because of it. How Renault and Alonso were able to keep a win in such conditions is beyond any comon sense.

 

You seem to forget that nothing looked suspicious during the Singapore GP, and the rest of the season went by with nobody questioning the result.

It's only a year later that, following allegations, a plot was uncovered.

By then, the results were done and dusted, and you cannot cancel a championship and deprive the winner of his title.

Anyway, Massa's mistake was to leave his pit with the fuel hose still attached and that is team or driver error, not directly imputed to the Singapore gate scandal. Other drivers refuelled, without incident. So, you could say that Ferrari and Massa were the artisans of their own misfortune, no?

 

Wasn't it Colin Chapman who said ''to finish first, first you have to finish'' ? Ferrari's bad luck at the British GP is all part of the game. I enjoy watching Formula 1, and it would be nice to see Ferrari doing well...........but it is still ''first past the post''. This apre race dissection of drivers and teams, and presumed team orders, is all pretty boring.

The duel between Vettel and Max was just great to watch......gladiators both, but who won, and who backed off ? Ferrari team orders to back off, and not get a scratch?
It's called a race..........and I expect to be entertained by racing. Not too concerned about who or which team wins, .......just my opinion, that's all.

 

At the 1958 Portuguese Grand Prix, having spun his car off the track, Hawthorn pushed his car and bump-started it on a downhill section - in the opposite direction that the race was being run, and the Stewards disqualified him for driving the wrong way on the track - Handing Moss the World Championship.

Moss very magnanimously informed the Stewards that he had witnessed the incident in person, and could confirm that Hawthorn had pushed his car and driven it in the opposite direction that the race was being run, but at the time, Hawthorn was on the pavement and not the track, and so couldn't be guilty of the offence he was charged with: Driving the wrong way on track.

The Stewards eventually agreed with Moss - The pavement was not the track and so Hawthorn was reinstated, giving the Championship to Hawthorn instead of Moss.

In a recent interview, Sir Stirling Moss was asked if he ever regretted not keeping his mouth shut about what he saw, to which he replied:

"Well it would have been easy enough to do I suppose, but it just wouldn't have been right! Mike was the rightful winner that year, and I wouldn't have been able to live with the shame of knowing that I would have cheated him out of his Championship. Besides, back then, at the time, My thinking was that I would win My Championship sooner or later anyway, but it turned out that it was not to be"

 

Same here.

I watch a GP to see a race, and I don't have a favourite team or driver.

 

Such sportsmanship would be unthinkable nowadays.

It was a great era.

 

Everything looked suspicious, to everyone!! Massa himself went straight to Briatore by the end of the race and had a loud argument with him, telling that "that was not the way to win races, it was not correct" The strategy used by Renault would be disastrous had it not been fo0r the safety car, it was obvious to everyone...but the FIA and bernie didn't want the scandal, they tried to hide everything, only when Piquet decided he would tell the whole story were they forced to act...but they left Alonso, renault..and all the results untouched...it was the biggest disgrace i ever saw in the sport.

 

This is of course one of the reasons why Alonso's credibility went south,although he of course still denies any knowledge of Piquet Jnr and Flavio allegedly arranging for him to win the race by crashing his own car!

 

Yes agree 100%. Lewis is very good and will likely pick up his 4th this year. He is closing in on some of Michael's records and being that he has driven better cars his whole career and seasons are so much longer now who knows where he could end up in the final stats tally

 

Huh I have always held Rosberg in high regard. I'm saying the sentiment at the time was that he was a decent driver but nothing special then Hamilton joined Merc and like Button before him he was expected to blow Nico into the weeds but neither happened. Happening again with Bottas.

Pre accident Massa was VERY fast.

 

Faster than Elton as far as i can tell

 

MS' wins and WDC records seem unbeatable. At least I don't want to see any driver beat them as it would imply years of total domination by one guy and that'd be really boring

 

With nine points on Sebastian's super licence, he cannot be too aggressive that might earn him more points at the moment.

 

I think the points went down a bit recently?

 

yup..prior to the British GP.....7 now or 6....I think 7.