Why a Stick Shift Defines the Driver

Your issue is with the Lambo. Of course a Ferrari is more fun!

 

Here is the bottom line..

If you are a real car guy... and you want involvement at the expense of speed... Go buy a Model T.

Crank it to start... use the magnetos... (hell try to get them set up to work right is a head scratcher) then try to figure out where nuetral is... then when you get going... when you get into trouble try not driving through the object in from of you... lol... its a challenge

Scariest 15mph and most involving 15mph you will ever experience until you figure everything out.

Honestly though... when you get it right... it feels REALLY good!

 

I agree those are pretty cool cars. I think Jay Leno has the best mix of cars and bikes. It seems like the right ratio of old and new and 2 wheels and 4 wheels (or more). You can enjoy really any kind of car of any generation, but he says his favorite is probably the McLaren F1, which has no power-assist anything.

 

Bawhahaha...I see what you did there lol

Shamile

Freeze. . . Miami Vice!

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If you were doing something other than having fun at the track, why would you choose a zl1. For example if you were seriously tracking and really interested in fast laps the Zl1 would be pretty low down on the list of choices, especialy if it were for more than a few laps. 650hp and 3800lbs is simply not going to be that fast on track compared to any serious track car, even a worked over e36 pure track BMW. Bearing in mind were not racing just going fast, so is the 1 or 2 secs and at is theoreticaly faster relevant?.

And the Zl1 nurbering time, as you know that has close to zero relevance to any track in the usa or anywhere else.

So if its for pure fun, well a stick is more enetrtaining and engaging on road than a auto unless youre at the track, and for the -5% of the time a street car will spend on track the performance delta to a stick is really minimal and irrelevant given driver deltas. From what i have seen in neither case will a 3800lbs overweight and overpowered car be really that sustainably fast on track.

I ran with some Zl1s and a previous gen Z28 at the glen this past weekend, they really are not that fast on track compared to so many other cars. If you want to go fast on track in american street iron its either a vette GS or z06 or the viper. In fact given the bad rap the c7 z07 has its pretty interesting to see that through the bends an unmodded C7 z06 can go faster than ac6 z06 runnign coilovers slicks etc.

From what i can see, if its a fast amateur scca type experienced driver, the car thats unbeatable is a 991 Gt3, at least on track for multiple laps.

Now if Gm makes as rumored a great DOHC NA motor and if its not too heavy then yes the camaro already has a great chassis and given the z28 treatment it could be a player.

on street the Zl1 is unbeatable, esp for the price. Auto or stick I think its a function of personal street driving preferance rather than laptimes.

Meanwhile didnt probst set faster times witht he zl1 stick comored tot eh auto. Sometimes maybe all that TQ and hp is just excess and not shifting too much makes you faster then.

 

pfft..Model "T"

That's a poseur's enthusiast car. Petro is for wimps.

I only drive STEAM powered cars for a true legit driver's experience.

 

Horse. Bareback.


...or running. Barefoot and naked.

 

now we are talking!

 

what kind of sick... disgusting... vile... masochist are you?

 

One with a high-pitched voice

 

Ferrari should offer a hand throttle and braking feature for people with other handicaps. Paddle shifters make Ferrari's useable for everyone. Win, win, win.

 

Screw all that sissy stuff. I built my own foundry and mined my own coal. I then beat out the gears with my own hammer.


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i have a a praplegic friend with a 458. indeed paddle shifters make the hand control ferrari very possible. the issue is having quality hand controls installed, not all are equal.

 

most of the posters are all hat and no cattle when it comes to offering opinions on DCT... their posts read as if they just finished reading an article about DCT and their entire experience is 3 times around the block with the salesman and paddle shifters on an auto transmission being passed off as a true DCT. It takes time to get the best from a DCT, once there, no one goes back.

Don't blame the car manufacturers or dealers for the lack making MT available... the noise comes from the from the sidelines from those without resources, while those doing the actual purchases are buying the DCT. The cliché' "money talks and BS walks" is spot on about the lack of MT being popular

 

Nobody's getting Road Head in a Manual.
Mike drop... end of discussion.... LOL

 

Bull ****.


Mark

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGJp1ypsxwQ[/ame]

 

Those that say the market has spoken, no demand for manuals in new cars are wrong, the demand with Porsche may be because the buyers actually drive there cars, vs Ferrari, the majority of these cars are bought and stashed as status symbols in the garage, maybe its a liability issue the F1s have a lot of nannies to save the owners from crashing and burning, the new buyer is different than the 2nd market, new buyers most likely lease the cars or finance, few drop down hard cash on a asset thats gonna depreciate like a rock to half in a few years, if they do they don't respect money or earned it like the guys on American Greed lol.

 

There was a guy who converted an original 917 short tail into a street legal road car. 1900 pounds 575 HP, M6.

The race drivers of these things had no trouble.

So the Nobody-can comment should be <ahem> canned.

 

Completely agree that overwhelmingly new buyers favor F1. That's just it though, Ferrari will prioritize new buyers over the 2nd market, hence the current situation.

 

This post doesn't make any sense. I don't really get the sense that you understand gearing?

I personally wouldn't want a ten-speed manual because there would be too many gates, and the gears would be geared too closely anyway; I would end up skip-shifting about half of them with almost complete regularity. I already skip gears when upshifting and downshifting, and I only drive a five speed.

I wouldn't want a ten-speed automated transmission either, not only because I hate driving them, but mostly because no matter how much faster the shifts are or how much you enjoy pulling a paddle, upshifting nine times to get into top gear is going to get old, and it will get old in a hurry. I also don't want to downshift seven times to go around a corner. (I realize that automakers are trying to program work-arounds for this by allowing the driver to hold the downshift paddle to downshift into the lowest gear possible, but from what I've read the results have been mixed at best).

Furthermore, adding more gears only adds more weight to the car. Also, ZF stated a while back that automatics with more than nine gears become geared so closely that a CVT would have actually been a better choice.

 

I got to say, that's very cool. Kudos to your friend! Good health to him and here's wishing many miles of happiness!

 

One of our regular, and longest-term, "2nd Saturday" car group members (he's a member here, too) has had hand control on all of his Ferraris that I can recall, thanks to the F1 system. Prior to needing the hand controls, he's always had performance cars, and knows how to drive well. I met him over 20 years ago, when I knew him for his Alpina BMWs.
The F1-type systems have their place, but when you don't NEED it, you can enjoy the more-involved drive.

 

Still seeing lots of people advocating manuals who also say dual clutch paddles are cool and have their place. Not seeing many people doing the opposite. Drove a 458 and can see the benefit of dct. Drove a California and it begged for a stick.

Ford Mustang GTs were what, 50% last year?

One side saying both would be great and one side saying manuals are old.

track bikes: Full throttle shifters are great. Street bikes: I like gp shift but no pneumatics.

I get why people want to drive track stuff, but also understand that street cars are not track cars and track cars do not work on the street. The relationship sells cars but not too many people commute in a stripped noble. It's the relationship that sells. The romance.

 

The Miata guys fight about this just as much so don't tell me it's about outright performance.

(A Miata in the tight mountains would be just as much fun for me, so perhaps I'm not the right audience).