Toro Rosso Honda and Mc Laren Renault?

It is no secret that McLaren's relationship with Honda is strained, following three seasons of poor performance.

Honda started the season with worse performance than they finished last year, despite a major engine redesign, and reliability has been shocking.

Only with the latest 'Phase Three' development, introduced competitively at the Austrian Grand Prix in early July, has the Honda matched the performance level it had at the end of 2016.

Unsurprisingly, then, McLaren have been casting around for a customer engine deal. First it looked like they would get a Mercedes, but that chance has now gone, as has Ferrari. That leaves Renault.

No-one wants to see Honda leave F1, though, and the Japanese company are in talks with Red Bull about supplying junior team Toro Rosso.

Red Bull's motorsport boss Helmut Marko was not even bothering to deny this last weekend. "Let's see," he said, smiling, when I asked him whether Toro Rosso would have Honda engines next year.

Red Bull's strategy is clear - get the Honda in the Toro Rosso, the overall performance of which does not really matter, as the team exists to blood young drivers, and if and when Honda get their act together, switch it to Red Bull and become the Japanese company's works partner.
At McLaren, they have lost faith Honda can do the job. And while it might not seem such a bright idea to swap the worst engine in F1 for the second worst, and give up a net $100m a year in the process, performance-wise it might make sense.

The Renault is said to be 10-15kw (13-20bhp) off a customer Mercedes engine in race trim. The Honda is just over 60kw down (about 80bhp). That's a 60bhp power jump. Which as an average is about a second's worth of lap time.

That would have put Alonso on the second row in Hungary and the third row at Silverstone. And that makes selling sponsorship deals - all but impossible for McLaren at the moment - much easier. And it would probably be enough for Alonso to feel it was worth staying in F1.

McLaren are said to be optimistic a Renault deal can be done - and some senior figures also believe it is close. However, there are others who suspect that McLaren's Renault option will go the way of Mercedes and Ferrari - why, they argue, would the French manufacturer give engines to another team besides Red Bull who might beat them?

If that happens, McLaren would be stuck with Honda.

And Alonso? Well, a year in IndyCar and a second shot at the Indy 500 might suddenly take on a new appeal.

Formula 1: Drivers and teams will be busy, despite summer break - BBC Sport

 

Toro Rosso Honda F1 2018 talks progressing after Tuesday meeting

Toro Rosso Honda F1 2018 talks progressing after Tuesday meeting - F1 - Autosport

 

Must be nice to have the $$ for a b-team that you're willing to anchor in case a currently useless engine supplier miraculously turns good.

 

+1
In case Renault gets a serious contender RBR is well advised to look out elsewhere.

 

Perhaps Honda will right the ship next year. Maybe they'll be able to create a mid-level PU that will consistently start up and even finish a race. I don't see how they'll be top-tier in both reliability and power by the time the regs change. Renault has a ton more experience and they can't bridge the gap themselves. How is Honda ever going to do it? One decent race and everyone's like "ooooooooh Honda!" Please, let's see how the rest of the year goes and how many more kahplueys we see.

 

Yep. The very nature of the Hungaroring suited them fine. And if Ricci would have finished (quod non), he would have pushed Stoffel out of the points.

 

Hungaroring results were a compliment to the chassis not the PU. Nontheless, Honda doesn't have interest in being a second tier engine supplier, hence the fancy relationship with one of the most successful teams and driver. They just overlooked that their part was to build a decent PU.

Cosworth had a business model around a low-end motor for whomever wanted such. Honda's target is the opposite. If they are not having plans to improve they'd be long gone.

 

If force hadn't screw up and Daniel not taken out McLaren's positions would of way down than the 6th and than 10 they're gotten.

 

It's easier for RB to take a risk on Honda next season. But a huge dilemma for McLaren

 

Why would Toro Rosso want to help McLaren?

 

I completely agree.

 

They are being self-serving. McLaren gets the collateral benefit.

If Marko takes the view that STR will purely be a vetting/development team for their junior drivers it doesn't matter where they place. Dialing back chassis budget + free engines + pocket money from Honda will substantially reduce the expenditure even with the reduced prize money of consistently placing last.

On top of that they lock in Honda as a works supplier for potential future use at RB.

 

Bit of a gamble, nevertheless.

Mind you, McLaren was really the guinea pig for Honda...

 

No gamble. If they're going to operate the team on a reduced budget without focus on results doesn't matter whether they're last or last.

It's a different mindset than McLaren or Sauber (or RB) who as teams race for their livelihoods and for honor.

 

McLaren sticks with Honda.

Next topic, please.

 

But it would help developing the young drivers if the engines makes it over the warm-up lap

 

From this year both Renault and Mclaren use BP fuel while Red Bull and Toro Rosso have Exxon who has worked with Honda until last year. A hint?

So mclaren gets renault engines and the Hulk but gives Nando to drive with Kubica at Renault?

 

I like it, it's so F1. Because it makes no sense except as silliness. In reality no team in F1 matters except Mercedes, Ferrari, and Red Bull. And Mercedes could leave at any time and Red Bull is at the mercy of their PU supplier. All the big manufacturers are salivation over Formula E, even FIAT wants Alfa or Maserati to enter. Which manufacturers are beating down the door to enter F1?

 

Agreed. McLaren made their bed on this one and should be committed to fixing this rather than complaining constantly about their engine partner.

 

People can divorce; why couldn't companies do the same?

 

I truly believe that Honda can turn this around as early as next season. Besides, McLaren NEEDS THEIR MONEY!!!!

 

Have you ever seen how much they charge for one of those little drinks?

 

We keep hearing that all the time.

Sounds like a quack doctor telling you to keep taking the same remedy that makes you sick all the time !!!

3 years before the end of this formula, and I doubt very much Honda will come up with an engine to take McLaren in the winning circles during that time.

 

But it's CONCENTRATED !!!

LOL