Bobileff Motorcar Company - an expensive lesson!

After many months of deliberations I have finally decided it's only fair to share my disastrous, expensive and quite stressful experience in having used a well known Lamborghini restoration specialist, for repairs to my Lamborghini Miura SV. As of late and with a little research I have been enlightened with a lot of interesting and surprisingly similar stories that have come from other patrons. We all know that it takes a well qualified shop and a very detailed technician that really knows vintage Lamborghini's, to do great work on a Miura. Talking to some well known Miura experts and owners around the world, Miura owners are challenged here in the US to find an expert that really knows these rare and unique cars. This being not just the mechanical aspects of the car but also all the other factors to properly bring these beautiful cars to the original state of what they were and should be, after a restoration or restoration type work. One outfit that most would agree, that has the knowledge base required to do this type of work, would be Bobileff Motorcar Company. Knowing all of this, I felt that my newly purchased 1971 Miura SV would be in great hands. After many years of owning and operating automotive related businesses, commissioning and assisting in a half dozen restorations on my own personal vehicles, where well over $1M in work was invested. (Accounting for a few high dollar Ferrari's I have owned) I feel that I have a good knowledge base and understanding of what's involved in working on these 40-60 year old high performance multi-million dollar cars. I have been fortunate to have worked with various well known restoration shops that often work on priceless cars. I have developed an understanding and the expectations that come along with these tedious processes. This also includes how these types of restoration shops estimate and invoice for their work, unexpected work and expenditures that almost always come up, and what the final product should look like. Luckily I have had many positive experiences and I have NEVER had to go on line to vent any of my frustrations with my fellow Fchaters, until just recently when my Miura SV was worked on. In fairness and prior to posting my experience, I bounced the events off of 4 or 5 well known experts and they understood the gravity of the problem. With out getting in too much detail, the issues that came after investing $90,000 worth of work are:

- Billing for work well ahead of actually performing it.
- Poorly detailed invoices.
- Extremely high rates for the type and quality of the work performed.
- A lot of faulty work requiring it to be redone, rendering the vehicle unusable, and all at additional costs.
- Safety related issues that in my opinion point to negligence.
- After almost 6 months, not performing all the work hired to be done
resulting in damaging newly repaired work.

In some cases the car is worse off than before the car was monkeyed with. A good portion of the faulty work we found, has been corrected by others shops soon after the faults occurred; well documented via pictures and written descriptions. This car happens to be a dream car of mine, a car I have worked very hard to add into my collection. I very much desire to correct any and all the faults that have shown up since the car has been returned to me. Unfortunately, I know this will come at a great expense. No one likes to nor should double pay for work, nor feel like they have been harmed but here it is.

Let's hope other owners out there make an educated decision prior to having their car worked on.

 

Rob the car went to him 6.5 moths prior to the last August's Miura 50th Anniversary gathering in Pebble Beach, so well before your warning. I knew I needed to be careful talking to a few people that knew the outfit well so I thought I was well prepared prior to sending the car there. I knew to be careful on certain fronts so I hired a local experienced representative to keep an eye on things at a high cost. His involvement didn't help, although he did as best as he could, and at the end I got a royal screwing any way. The car was not usable for a while until having a local shop work through many problems. The car was in better shape for the most part prior to the almost $100k in work.

 

Well, 2 things here. One being this:
"A lot of faulty work requiring it to be redone, rendering the vehicle unusable, and all at additional costs."
This is the most offensive thing a shop can do. Specifically the "all at additional cost" IMO, almost criminal.

2nd,
I know of quite a few stories of other shops fixing messes But where the 1st shop totally screwed things up and the 1st is the one who had to call on other shops to fix their mess. I know a painter who had to fix a mess that a celebrity shop caused and I know the different shop who had to fix the mess of a motor of same car...that said shop could not get right. Funny part...I am talking 2 different shops, at 2 different times, and 2 different cars.....A Daytona and a Countach.

In my years, I have heard something about every shop we know on here.

Sorry to hear that you have fell victim, you're a good man that has done good by old Lamborghinis.

 

Sorry to hear Geno.

 

Agreed and thank you Peter

 

It sounds like you did what you could to prevent this. For several years I worked for a private collector with widely varied interest in cars, trucks, and military vehicles.
My principal responsibility was to periodically inspect all work in progress at various shops around the world. Progress payments were only made once I signed the invoice minimizing our exposure.
I found many big name shops calculated their monthly expenses, divided it by the number of cars in house, and each owner paid their share even if the car was left untouched.
I love what I do but the automotive restoration industry could not have a worse reputation.

 

One would think a reputable shop fixes their mistake. It is not like their never worked on any Lambo! But why at additional cost? Or it is that the OP is willing to pay someone due to loss of trust?
Not a good story and worrisome. May be auto restoration is in a bubble phase and something has to reset.

 

To be fair....do shops bill in advance of the work because they know they are going to do the said work and that they have done it so many times that they pretty much know what each part of the projects cost? I mean, if the shop knows what rebuilding heads or cutting the rust out cost, based on the estimate. Is the thinking that we will bill him for the full hydraulics rebuild and we know that it generally cost 4k?

The several times my cars were out I'd send money when asked, but I knew where they were at.
The next time I send one of them out, I am considering just sending monthly payments.


I am astonished that some folks do not pay as they go and they get hit with a 40k or 100k bill at the nend and the thing just sits there.

 

BTW, I hope Gary does NOT come on here to address this. I would hope if he addresses this it would be privately. And Gene would report back. I for one, am not into the mudslinging, or even the back and forths, that we had grown accustom to in years past. I think stuff like that is why so many Lambo owners don't post much anymore, if at all.

 

And not bombard but is it down to employees? Because I am familiar with both those aspects of the business. Usually the owners of a business have the best intentions but the employees ruin it for them. You get employee working on a car with a pill problem, a relationship problem, a chip on the shoulder, a distraction......that will kill a reputation.

 

Stopped by his place last year, big place in terms of Exotic car restoration, lots of Miuras,spoke to Gary,seemed like a nice guy. But as Peter pointed out,, the combination of multiple ,Miura restorations. And employees, must be difficult.

 

A of the old mechanics who know the old cars just don't work on them anymore due to age , health etc.

 

When Algar Ferrari did the first round of work on my Dino some years ago, it was in their shop for 8 or 9 months. I stopped in regularly to talk with the mechanic, and the owner, or service manager, or anyone else who would take the time to chat.

I did not make any installment payments, but was kept aware of the running total on the bill. When I went to pick up the car, they told me the total, carefully explained what they charged, and then gave me a $5,000 discount because they had cost overrun way past their original estimate. The total, after the discount was about $23,000. I wrote the check, took the car home. I also learned that the mechanic got paid by the job, so he didn't get paid for his labor on the car until it was delivered to me and paid for.

Next time the car went in, for round two of the work, I paid them monthly so that the mechanic would get paid as well. If I had not become aware of the arrangement between mechanic and dealer, I would have waited the four months until the second round of work was done.

At the end of the day, if you don't pay your mechanic, he's gonna keep your car until you do, or until the lawsuit resolves what's owed. There's a huge disincentive for owners not to pay the bill.

D

 

SWA is your friend.
Spirit is even less money .
You must put eyes on the project each month.

 

In the end the wealthier collectors end up with their own guy and/or crew. Sounds expensive but in the end it probably is not. Look at Leno?
I recall a famous shop telling a client of mine that his car was a 98 point car and to improve his score would run $75K per point! At the time I could have built him an entire new car for that.
We do mechanicals in house but all outside work is monitored vigorously. Gary knows what to do.

 

I think he's currently temp banned here, so not likely that he can respond.

D

 

Perhaps, but it does not need to be that way.

I've personally restored half-a-dozen Miura & Countach in total so Ive experienced exactly what the OP is describing here.

In the end, if you persist, although it's a long-shot, you might just find someone with that rare combination of honesty, skill, knowledge & efficiency.

The guy who helped me restore my Mimran Countach is such a guy, so I believe that good restorers, albeit apparently the exception, do exist.

Peter, do you not think the opportunity to address this privately existed all during the "many months of deliberations" the OP describes?

 

Hmm, I wonder how this could happen considering this thread and the number of restorations done.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/lamborghinichat-com-sponsored-cats-exotics/438202-pair-lambo-350gt%92s-go-%93under-knife%94-restoration-bobileff-motorcars.html

 

I probably did but I thought it would have been best not to continue it on here. However, on the other side of it, it would interesting for owners to see how it is handled.

 

Well, again, bear in mind that it wouldn't be on here at all if the restorer hand taken "the opportunity to address this privately" !

 

We all know you have no love for Gary. I have no dog in this event.

BUT I can tell you there are ALWAYS 2 sides to every issue.

Not sure it's your place to slant your opinions to one side if your not aware of both sides details, just one sides few lines of how he sees things went.

Not sure you comment is of any value, other then to negatively paint another when you are NOT knowledgeable of both sides 100%.

I know I am not, so I can't speak either way to either side......

I just don't approve IMO of your "bully on top of the sand hill" comments.

 

I understand your concerns, allow me to address them.

As far as I know it to be, my relationship with Gary starting 22 years ago was BUSINESS, always was. To say I have no love for him as a generalization would be in fact incorrect, as known by some reading this. To say that I have no love for the finished product he delivers in recent years, would be more accurate.

Its worth remembering that I have personally restored multiple cars with him, and referred at least a dozen (12) other restorations to him years ago. If the people I referred were not properly taken care of, I have a right to be disappointed at the very least.

You say you "have no dog in this event". If so, then why comment at all? As you say "I can't speak either way to either side......" so commenting is redundant.

Your suggestion that it is not my place to slant opinions is erroneous on multiple levels. Firstly, I havent slanted any opinions, I have simply drawn Peter's attention to the obvious that caused this thread to happen in the first place and the obvious opportunity that existed for resolution. Secondly, it is indeed my place to comment, as I am 100% familiar with this particular matter having been consulted by the OP months ago.

I think my brief comments thus far are of good value as they speak for themselves, are based on knowing the details of this matter, and allow people to understand why this thread even happened.

Bear in mind that where time & money are concerned in a restoration, the "two sides to a story" excuse doesn't always apply. Either you have a happy customer, or you don't. Either the work was done right as per previously-discussed expectations, or it wasn't.

You are patently in error when you state that I am "NOT knowledgeable of both sides" because I have FIRST-HAND multiple restoration dealings with the subject restorer and am therefore intimately aware of his modus operandi, plus, I have files of at least six (6) very unhappy clients who used the same restorer whose stories mirror that of the OP exactly, and worse. In fact some of those people are FChatters reading this!

Perhaps you should ask yourself why Rob Lay sent out warnings a year ago?

If anything, I think my comments thus far have been restrained, reserved, and based on my first-hand knowledge of both the this thread's events and the pattern of practice of the subject restorer. My comments have nothing to do with any "bully on top of the sand hill" thing as you characterize them to be, they are on-point, and, because I think that this thread speaks for itself, there is no reason for me to elaborate.

One thing I should point out is, despite the fact that some people have been seriously wronged, the overall sentiment that myself and all the others I have spoken to have is one of disappointment, more than anything.

That said, I if I am surprised by anything, it is that there are not more threads like this one.

Thank you for bringing this up as it illustrates the point I am making, sometimes, there is only one side to a story, the parties just interpret it differently.