I'm so depressed, but need to share

2.5 months ago I purchased my 430 with 12,430 miles on it. The PPI was done by Black Horse Motors in Los Angeles. They said the car was in excellent mechanical condition with no issues. Since then I have put 400 miles on the car. I took my 430 in for a fluid change to Fast Cars this week. Craig called me this morning and told me that the headers were leaking and that I needed a new water pump and oil pump. I think that you all know that this is going to be an expensive repair. I gave Craig the go ahead. Do you think that any of this should have been caught during the PPI? Fast Cars has been great and I trust the work that will be done. I'm just pissed at myself for not knowing better before this.

 

Some shops do a better PPI than others. They probably should have caught the leaking headers.
The leaking water/oil pump may be a judgement call. One shop might look at it and say it is just seeping, where another shop will not allow any leakage at all.
I come from a background of working on vintage Ferraris, where every car leaks a little oil.
It is just part of owning one of those cars.

Having switched to working on new cars, now no leakage is acceptable. On cars that I see a little wetness on the pumps, not dripping oil, just 20K miles of accumulation I just clean it off and recommend to monitor the pump in the future. Other techs in the shop would recommend replacement of the pump, even though there is not enough leakage for it to drip onto the under tray. It all depends on who is working on the car.

 

Sorry to hear man. I feel ya. I bought my car day one it got almost another tick past the middle temp: drivers fan was in-op. I also replaced the DRL light and just today noticed it has the dash window switches lights on and door locks don't work inside the doors (micro switches I'm guessing). And his came from ferrari of San Fran. They paid for the fan but I haven't even bothered to ask about the door locks since I've had it about 2 months now and I can imagine what they will say.

I love the car, but I'm sure like you, it is really taking away from the experience.....

 

You could by all means approach the PPI people. They may come to some agreement and pay all or some of the cost.

I did similar with my F355 when after a few hundred miles and a service the indie (who did not PPI it) found one CAT was void of anything. The independent that did the PPI admitted they should have found it and replaced it and paid the labour.

Got to be worth an ask.

 

Just be sure you dont put new Ferrari manifolds on, in place of the leaking ones.

 

A PPI is never a catch all...you will almost always find a few more things...however the headers should have been inspected as its a known issue with 430s. You could say something to the shop, but with less shops willing to do PPIs for this reason alone, it couldbgo either way.

 

when I bought my 430, I had Boardwalk Ferrari do a "PPI" (which was really the CPO inspection and they found leaking headers. Matter of fact, knowing that headers are an issue, I specifically told them to check. But mechanical components can fail at any time regardless of doing a PPI.

 

And THIS is why nobody does PPIs anymore.

You do an inspection, give an owner what you can see. And *of course* something will be missed. You can't dismantle the car. You get paid $300 for your time.... and then if anything is missed the owner comes back at you to pay for whatever you missed.
I suppose now the shop should pay for the $3000 headers? Absurd.

Whenever we buy a used car, there will be issues. Sucks. But there will be, esp. on a closing in on a 10 year old car. Suck it up, pay for it and move on.

 

I would agree with this statement, although, I might have said it a little more tactfully. Its worth asking the PPI company about any help or compensation, maybe they will do the repair at no labor cost? Who knows.
Sorry about the troubles, think in a few weeks you will be out enjoying the road and this will be behind you.

 

PPI's is no guarantee. But I don't think they should pay for it when they only eyeballed the car. A leaky oil seal is no biggy unless you have oil pressure issue. The manifold leak should have been a factory/dealer fix or are future owners holding the bag for this known F430 issue. Shouldn't Ferrari fix this known issue like a recall?

 

Cars will be cars. Even the most thorough PPI won't catch things that are about to happen with little or no warning. I'm going through the purchase of a 360 right now. I had a experienced guy do the PPI. He drove the car and knows how these F360s should act. It came back with only cosmetic issues, which he documented with photos for me.

But will that keep me out of a radiator repair or replacement if it suddenly lets loose in a couple of weeks? Or a window motor that goes kaput? As I like to say, we live in an imperfect world. We get lucky, we get disappointed.

But with that said, I feel for the OP. Sure can take the joy out of ownership real fast. I guess my way of approaching it is I actually expect something to go wrong or get missed on the PPI. So if it does, oh well. Like Robert says, in couple of weeks you'll move on to the enjoyment of owning a Ferrari.

 

Every FCar owner has trouble with their cars from time to time. Especially in the first year after purchase. But once those things are sorted out, you create a closer bond with your car. It's like in marriage; going through difficult times makes you stronger together!

 

I'd say you got off easy

There are many expensive things that can go wrong on this car. It doesn't sound like you will have to drop the engine or transmission, so I would consider these minor problems. The cracking headers is a known problem, I would just assume that if it hadn't already broken, it would during your ownership and you should budget for it. That way when things happen, you are already expecting them and won't be depressed. It's all about expectations. I expect a lot of problems with my car (in fact, I bought it knowing that it had problems!) but for me it is pleasurable to know that when something goes bad, know I fixed it and it will be good for a long while now.

 

BTW I would not replace the water pump. You can rebuild it.

 

seems like there should have been a maintenance record that the headers were replaced under warranty as its a common issue

 

FYI, if the PPI was done at a Ferrari dealer, you can back on the dealer that did the PPI through Ferrari North America. I work at a Fcar dealer, and see this happen lots. When I imported a Ferrari for myself car from the USA undriven, key part of the deal was that the PPI was done at the closest dealer. Sorry to sway off topic from the OP, but good info to know.

 

I am also in the middle of purchasing my first Ferrari, a 2004 360 Spider. The dealer and I came to agreement that they will perform the major belt service before I take delivery of the car at their cost. Upon inspection by Ferrari of Atlanta it was discovered the water pump was leaking and new tensioners were required which the dealer is covering (not cheap). Further inspection revealed the valve covers and cam seals are weeping ($3500 repair which the dealer said to tackle next year during its annual which the dealer will not cover) and transmission/F1 fluid was dark which the dealer won't cover and I am going to at a cost of $1400. That being said I know things will crop up over time, some of which may be expensive. FoA said this is one of the nicest 360's in Atlanta (they have no vested interest in the car) and other than the weeping seals (not hitting the tray or exhaust) it is about perfect. It is all part of the ownership experience. EDIT: I did not buy the car at FoA, they are only doing the service work.

 

+1.

It stinks that this happened so quickly after taking ownership, but as mentioned a PPI isn't a full blown guarantee.

And although it is very unlikely, these things could have popped up in the last 400 miles you've been driving.

Hope it all works out for you.

 

I feel for you Bro, but I'd try to look at this a different way (easier said than done). Once you do the headers, which all F430 need, you won't need to do it again. The new water pump should be good several years.

 

This is nothing to be depressed about. Fix it, enjoy it, and be thankful that you have a Ferrari in your garage.

 

Thanks all for your replys. I will most likely not go back to Black Horse (PPI) or Beverly Hills MaClaren (where I bought the car). Not worth the hassle or arguments that will ensue. The frustrating part is that Craig mentioned that these items could have been identified during the PPI. The depressing part is going into service for a basic fluid change and coming out with a repair bill of over $11k. To me, $11k is not minor. I will be replacing with Fabspeed headers though. Again, appreciate your comments (tough love and all).

 

What's the breakdown of the 11k?

 

You don't need a Water pump.

 

Parts for header, oil pump, and water pump were $7.9k alone. The rest is labor.

 

Oil pump and water pump are 1 unit. Price new is expensive but you can rebuild your current one. Mine is being rebuilt and cost <3k.