575 fans on a 550??

Hi guys.

One more cooling fan question... I plan to have my radiator taken out during service and I have come accross two complete fans from an abandoned 575... Will these fit right in? I believe I have read that these pump more air through the radiator and is somewhat noisier? I like this idea because then I can hear both the fans better (like on my 1991 Maserati which sounded like a hurricane). Will these fans overload the wiring and relays? I am thinking that to build one more wiring harness of more than adequate size directly from the battery with two heavy relays would be better than stock and use existing wiring/relays as the signal to the new relays.....?! I want to be able to get stuck in traffic in 40+ degrees celsius with new black tarmac in the sun with a newly hard driven engine with hot oil and everything and still be able to sit comfortably inside in 19-22 degrees C. with the AC on and still no more than 100 deg C on the temp needle..... For that the original 550 cooling system is far away adequate.

Thanks in advance. You guys know everything!

just woke up from a Ferrari 456 dream here, early at 5AM in the morning.....

 

John Cribb has an extensive thread on fans for the 550. Maybe he will chime in and tell you where it is.

 

The 575 fans will fit fine on the 550's shroud. The 575 fans may give better performance than the 550's, however I couldn't tell the difference when I ran one against the other. It was a very subjective test, however.

What would make a bigger difference for you, IMO would be to use the 575's fan shroud, which is a full coverage type, instead of the 550 shroud, which only covers maybe 2/3 of the radiator core.

Here are some threads you might find useful if you're having cooling system issues:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/456-550-575-sponsored-bradan/509453-550-575-radiator-cooling-fans.html#post144412648

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/456-550-575-sponsored-bradan/467990-upgraded-fans-2.html

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/456-550-575-sponsored-bradan/463709-550-overheating-issues-blown-out-proportion.html

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/456-550-575-sponsored-bradan/454946-550-cooling-fans.html

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/456-550-575-sponsored-bradan/379604-how-hot-does-your-456-550-run-3.html

 

Thanks a lot. I am on the hunt for a 575 shroud and fans. I do considder to put two separate big relays with separat high gauge wiring directly from the battery and use the existing fan wiring to control the new relays. It also makes it possible to run two or only one fan manually by a switch or even a time or temp controlled "after cooling". I feel that the performance of the AC is much related to the heat around the front AC radiator and to keep things cool at standstill with the engine running or not is important. The heat from the engine and exhaust actually heats up the cabin a lot... I plan to improve this before summer. Hate to sit in a hot car and sweat!

 

Read those threads carefully and there are some other tricks like smaller 575 pulleys and the 575M water pump impeller, lightly machined to fit.

Note most AC problems are caused by the system's lack of integrity, compressor, fittings or lines, and not being properly filled with refrigerant and having a fresh receiver/dryer. Not sure the fans will do much for the AC system. Mine works fine in high desert temperatures as long as you remember to go high on the fan when starting with a hot cabin. Will make you deaf, but only needed for a few miles until things cool down. She is a 575, though.

 

About the AC refrigrant level, I experienced the same. Mine could not make cold air unless the car was moving. After I added more fluid it worked a lot better, but again then I was not at south with those high outside temps.. So hard to tell, but I assume it would make cold air even if driven in "Texas-temperatures". This summer everything shall be working much better!!

 

What's the story on this unit, please?
v12s - Ferrari 575 ?Twin Electric Cooling Fans in Aluminum Shroud

Thanks!

~Troyce -
1998 550 Maranello
2006 F430

 

Interesting Troyce.

What is a bit weird is that the complete unit is the same size as the fans... The 575 shroud is considderably bigger than the diameter of the fans. IF the complete diameter here is not much bigger. That might be the case.

One thing I noticed when looking at my 456M videos from several years back is that the 456M fans were much louder than my 550 fans which I can barely hear. I might have a voltage drop and slower fans. Hard to tell....

Anyway, I have bought the parts that Dave (Ferraridriver) reccomended to do his "steamline modification). According to him who also runs his 550 for trackdays in America which use to be hot, the can will never pass 195 Fahrenheit... Which is pretty impressive, as mine is faaar from that. I was in Italy last week to have it installed, but the whole workshop was closed for the summer as they have summer vacation down there. The disappointment was pretty high, so instead I enjoyed my E46 M3 cabrio. That one has a viscous clutch for the engine fan (operate at engine rpms) + one big electric fan in front of the radiator. The M3 won't get more than normal temp no matter what you do! The weather was super hot in Italy last week at 43 deg Celcius at the most... In my 550, I would have had to park the car, as it can't go under 40 kph. and not overheat in that temp. I am VEEEERY eager to test out the steam line modification. If it works, then that means that Ferrari has done a serious design error when making the 550 cooling system. Absolutely NOT acceptable on any car, and at least not on a 200.000 dollar Ferrari.
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I really love this car... Wprks perfect for everything! Even pulling my boat..

I checked eurospares. The 575 shroud cost about 300 dollars. Baybe the way to go... Cheap and effective as it covers the complete radiator.
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Dave's steam line mod which ventilate the small air that might be somewhere in the engine out and into the expansion tank. (The original one goes from the top of the radiator far down and then up into the expansion tank..., which might case a problem to get the air going where it should.
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Just bought the parts locally. 50 dollar... From a highest quality hydraulic fittings supplier...
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Troyce, that guy builds hi-po fan kits for a variety of cars, and the Jag guys really like his stuff. The last I knew he was using Maradyne fans in lieu of Spal, and I don't have much data on the Maradynes. As someone else mentioned, if that pic shows the shroud that he builds for the 550 then I wouldn't expect much performance improvement. The 575M shroud with its full coverage design is the key to better cooling.

It would be really good if someone with an overheating issue would buy one of these shrouds and put it on their 550 and report the results back.

 

Oddly, there's no contact information, at least that I could find, on V12s website. I found a number by searching "V12s NH," called and left a message. I will ask about the dimensions if I get a call back.

~Troyce
1998 550 Maranello
2006 F430

 

Well for what it's worth.... My 330 GTC had terrible overheating issues years ago and my mechanic and I did the following which cured it totally.
1. we upgraded the fans. The original fans didn't pull much air but they did pull a lot of watts. We switched to 328 fans mounted backwards, yes I know it's not original, but it did work.. 2. We changed out the radiator to a commercial core which mounted inside the original top and bottom so that to anyone not knowing, it seemed exactly the same, however the new core had 50% more tubes per sq inch.
After that, no more issues no matter how hot it got.

 

Sorry Troyce, I was referring to someone with a 550 overheating problem, buying the 575M shroud, mounting their existing fans on it, and reporting back with any changes it made.

 

John, I will probably do that after the steam line mod is in place (if it still overheats). And report back. At the mlment, I have to turn on full heat and fan to get the temp down. Have tried to bleed while at high temp. Still does not help. Will report soon.

Erik

 

Erik, I well remember my wife & I sitting in Houston traffic one day in August, sweat dripping off both of us and her makeup being ruined in the process, and she asked me "Why must you run the HEATER in August in this $200,000 car to keep it from overheating?"

She lost a lot of love for the 550 that day........

p.s. It sounds like you're going down the same rabbit holes I did back in 2012, chasing the overheating issues. I never did really find the root cause, but I learned a lot in the process. I feel it was a combination of the brutal climate we have in Houston during the summer, plus a marginally adequate cooling system on the car. In the end, changing to a 90/10 mix of pure water & coolant + No-rosion was the only thing that really helped reduced the coolant temperature for me.

 

Thanks! I will test that soon when I pick up the car. I use it in France/Italy during visits to a company I have started to co-operate with. That means meetings etc. and I really hate to start a meeting having to be soaked in sweat etc... I want to enjoy the car, but it does not work that way when I can't drive normally. The car has been like this from the forst day I got it in Italy spring of 2013. Have changed the water oump and coolant. No change there. I find it really strange actually. And to focus 50% of your time watching the water trmp needle really is not the way I want it!!

 

Image of my "Classic Failures" I discovered today. Steam-line mod and replacement of the shock motors will come after I find whatever is the cause - and fix - of half a tank of fuel pouring out on the ground when I fill up.

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Hello,
I am planning to do this...can you please send me the parts list?
Also, how did the 575 shroud fit? Did you upgrade fans?
Please advise.
Thanks

 

Hi Knight.

What is the problem with you car? I did install the steam line and I really like it because the car is self-purging when filling up with coolant. And at the same time, I know that there can’t be any air in the system. After I did this modification, it seems like the car stopped using coolant. I am not sure why. I can’t say that the temperature went down at all, probably not. I sometimes had to top up the coolant reservoire before. But it can be due to a bad cap aswell. Which I replaced when I changed the fans. The MAIN big improvement was the new fans that blows much more air through the radiator. The result is much less pressure in the cooling system, which in its turn make the car loose zero coolant. I have now driven about 15.000 kms. with those new fans and I have not added one droplet of coolant!! When Ferrari in the manual say that temps up to 115 degrees C is normal, this is just because they know the car was overheating! It should NOT need to have this temp. The new fans and shroud make the car stay at a much more acceptable temp, which causes the cooling system to work under less high pressure, which is great for all hoses and heater inside the cabin etc. Especially on an old car where you don’t want the hoses to break.

I installed the shroud first, but still with the old fans. It did help a bit and delayed the overheating in traffic. But if you left the car stationary, the temp just climbed. To fit the 575 shroud on the 550, I had to cut the corner off the frame profile at both sides and make a bit of primer and paint after I grinded off the edges. It did hurt a bit to use a metal saw on my car, but it was really worth it, and I never regret it. The oil pipes to the oil vapor return tank which goes from the heads are slightly too long when you install the 575 shroud, because the 575 shroud move the fans and the vapor tank further back toward the engine. But I go them to fit anyway. When you buy the new shroud, it comes without the rubber for the «flaps» which make the air go through when at high speed. When slow or stationary, the vacuum inside the shroud is supposed to make these rubber flaps close so all air is pulled through the radioator. This means you need to buy or fabricate then yourself. Not difficult! If these flaps fail, the fans will pull «false air» from the engine compartment rather than through the radiator and will not make the cooling work as it should. The flaps are not there on the 550 shroud.

i have made a «modification thread» for my car and on page 3, you can see all this! I attach a link to it:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/2016-modification-thread.509118/page-3

Thi instllation of the shroud is rather complicated. You need to drain the oil to change it!! Because the oil lines are connected to the oil radiator, and the radiator and oil radiator need to come out of the car as one assembeled unit. Then you change the shroud and but it back as on unit! It is quite interesting how Ferrari decided to make this installation. The grill must come upp, and the power steering cooler loosed from the two radiators. Everything is screwed to each other!!

Best of luck!

Erik