Countach Downdraft 1985 to 1988.5 | Page 278 | FerrariChat

Countach Downdraft 1985 to 1988.5

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by joe sackey, Oct 25, 2015.

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  1. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    Joe Sackey
    #6926 joe sackey, Aug 30, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
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  2. PineChris

    PineChris Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2013
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    Chris

    Awesome pic! Valentino seems to be zooming quite well in 2nd, yet the speedometer is indicating Zero.... DD are soo fast that even their speedometer cant keep up! :)
     
  3. roytoy2003

    roytoy2003 F1 Veteran

    Jul 30, 2004
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    Roy L. Cats
    True, however the tach is showing what looks like approx 4K??


    Most likely the SPEEDO/ODO is disconnected to keep what appears as low
    Miles on the car? Keeps the value up if All The miles are not recorded and shows lower miles then it really has.

    Very easy to disconnect on the older cars.

    Just connect it back prior to delivery to the new owner.
     
  4. roytoy2003

    roytoy2003 F1 Veteran

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    Roy L. Cats
  5. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    Dugan Enterprises rectified the malfunctioning speedo in December 2016 the week after the film shoot, so I’m afraid this is somewhat old news.

    That said, this is exactly one of the reasons I invited factory test driver Valentino Balboni to test-drive the car post-restoration, and as a result, he came up with a small list of items to rectify, just as would happen at Sant Agata when the cars were new.

    In test driving the car previous to Valentino doing so, the speedo worked just fine for Chris & Cam, in my case a week later, I was so concerned about sounds, temperatures, revs and performance that I never even noticed the speedo had stopped working. But, there is no substitute for experience, and the Maestro catches everything.

    He reported to us that both the speedo and cold air from the AC were inop, and, gave direction towards final adjustments to the car’s steering column and the suspension. He thought that the speedo cable might have failed, not uncommon in a Countach as it has a torturous path kinking through the bulkhead into the car, but as I recall, I think it turned out to be an issue with the worm drive assembly. Or something. Anyway, it got fixed and has worked nicely ever since.

    I might look into a corrector gearbox which attaches to the speedo cable and gives virtually 100% accurate speedometer.

    Of course we asked Valentino about the engine’s power delivery and feel, and he simply grinned broadly and muttered something in Italian which I didn’t fully understand, besides the word “Spettacolare” which I took to mean good things. At lunch afterwards, he pointed out that he was test-driving this car for the second time, just over 30 years later, a special day for him I believe.

    This car doesn't have any low miles to protect, at over 70,000 kms (@44,000 miles) it can be enjoyed.

    The damage was a parking lot affair at no more than 3 mph as Raymond will tell you himself, my wife & I happened to be witnesses to it as is openly discussed in fun here http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/144483927-post1702.html and I'm certain it had zero impact on the cable. Also, when I received the car the speedo and odometer were working fine, and now that the car has been restored and final-tested, it works fine again. My hope is to continue Raymond's tradition of putting some miles on this fantastic Countach.
     
  6. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    #6931 joe sackey, Aug 31, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    IG pic of my daughter & I leaving Il Fornaio in Carmel, the rear parallel-linked suspension can be seen at work on the uneven ground, very cool.
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  7. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    Joe Sackey
  8. Ellagirl

    Ellagirl F1 Rookie

    Aug 20, 2014
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    Nils johnsen
  9. roytoy2003

    roytoy2003 F1 Veteran

    Jul 30, 2004
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    Glad it's all corrected now. Guess when it changes hands, a disclourser
    of TMU will have to made, (true mileage unknown), to next owner, as this
    is the case on this car now.

    Also, correct me if I am wrong....

    But I think it more accurate to say Mr VB was Retained for his
    services, other then "invited" as he was compensated for his services
    as he told me at dinner in Monterey just this month. Which he totally
    deserves for service. He told me it was a "nice car" when asked.
     
  10. S_AGATA

    S_AGATA Formula Junior

    Aug 24, 2016
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    Jon/Sean Sohaei
  11. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    #6936 joe sackey, Aug 31, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks Nils, cellphone sound can be good but not exact, and the best replication of the cars sound I have heard so far is Ben's video which I really need Early Cat to embed! https://youtu.be/TorVQotPDNg

    Of course, you are assuming (or hoping) that it will change hands, either way, you could be in for a very long wait.

    With respect to a speedometer cable that stopped working during the course of two drives strictly during post-restoration testing, absolutely no TMU applies, just as was the case when speedos were found to be inoperable during Valentino's test-drives of new Countachs 30 years ago, and as is the case with literally hundreds of vintage & classic cars that have a brief speedo disconnect, especially whilst in the shop or on testing. In our case, the car is fully restored and as good as new if not better, yet the odometer reflects that it has over 70,000 kms and we are certain that its within @ 75 miles of genuine travelled distance.

    Strictly no offense, but, as regards your previous comments "Very easy to disconnect on the older cars. Just connect it back prior to delivery to the new owner", those kind of thoughts simply never cross my mind, nor will they ever, I guess I just don't think that way, as such, I'm unaware that it is very easy to disconnect the odometer on the older cars, as you say.

    Valentino Balboni was invited by me to test-drive my car upon the completion of its restoration, he was also invited by me to feature in my film production of him and my car, as a special project. Emails on file making the invitation and his acceptance attest to this. As such it is 100% correct to say he was invited, and just because it is customary that his travel, accommodation and his suggested expenses are taken care of everywhere he goes (as matter of simple logistics of a retired person) does not negate the fact that he was invited one iota. You may not know that he flew directly from Italy to California and back again especially to do my project for me, cancelling other obligations to facilitate me despite some pressing family issues back in Italy. You may also note that he is invited to do many different things and attend many events, some of which he declines. On the other hand, of course, he is also retained on a purely business basis for inspections etc.

    As regards how nice this car is, Vale is right, its a nice car, it speaks for itself, there are videos, magazine articles and many high-resolution images of it all over the internet for you anyone judge, and, I'm certainly not hiding the car from personal viewing from anyone. That said, this car has become more to me than just another nice car, it's become an example of what I do and how I do it, and it gets me out there sharing with clients & enthusiasts. It's also a very special Countach in terms of specification and it's role in Lamborghini heritage, and the story of how I accidentally came to own it, restored it, and sought out Patrick Mimran, means something to me now. Truth be told, these details matter more to me than how nice it is after the restoration, that's exactly why I did not show it over the Pebble Beach weekend but simply drove it around to share with people. I hope to continue to do that.

    I wish the video was longer.
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  12. PineChris

    PineChris Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2013
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    So what you are saying, is if you looked at any Countach that was for-sale, which was driven with a speedometer that was not working, that was involved in a collision that the owner stated to you was a low speed crash it would not need disclosing nor would it affect its value?

    Personally I have not seen the car, but following your restoration process updates I'm certain it is a very nice example, but I have a very hard time believing that someone would not notice a speedometer not working after a restoration process.
     
  13. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    The damage was a parking lot affair at no more than 3 mph as Raymond will tell you himself, my wife & I happened to be witnesses to it as is openly discussed in fun here http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/144483927-post1702.html it's a well-known often joked-about event, it's always disclosed as it was in this thread earlier, and I'm certain it has zero impact on the cars value after our total last-nut-and-bolt restoration.

    Again, you are assuming the car will be sold.

    As I mentioned, in test driving the car previous to Valentino doing so, the speedo worked just fine for Chris & Cam, in my case a week later, I was so concerned about sounds, temperatures, revs and performance that I never even noticed the speedo had stopped working. I'm human. But, Valentino caught it, part of the reason he was there.

    By the way, I invite you to see the car in person Allan.
     
  14. PineChris

    PineChris Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2013
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    Chris
    What Im saying is that you want people to take your word for it.. Would you take a sellers word in the same instance, or would you use it as leverage to buy the car for less?

    Id love to see it, Im sure it is amazing.. And btw, to answer your question from a while back about me wishing that I purchased a DD. The truthful answer is that I wished I bought a series 1 lowbody. That inmo, is the ultimate Countach.
     
  15. roytoy2003

    roytoy2003 F1 Veteran

    Jul 30, 2004
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    Well at least we can all rest assured this TMU vehicle with
    accident history is not going to be sold.

    One thing you ARE WRONG on is that fact that it is AGAINST Federal
    Law to disconnect and or tamper with the ODO. THIS is exactly why this
    car, UNDER FEDRAL LAW is and ALWAYS will be a "Branded TMU" vehicle.
    Regardless of your pure BS excuse that "it's OK" when he restored or tested such as
    when new to "not record" the miles. TOTAL and 100% BS....

    BUT since your never selling it, then it's dimissed value for these two as described
    "Story" issues should have no concern to you.

    YOU can also call VB visit a "invitation" all day long...but we ALL KNOW your so
    invitation would not have even been considered had he not been reimbursed as WELL as
    additionally compensated for his expert service, which he is more then deserving.

    I don't recall him "inviting" you to dinner on Saturday nite in Monterey this year just for the pure pleasure of friendship. Cost free of course.

    Keep using your fancy words to make yourself believe otherwise.

    At least we know you can never disparage any other vehicle with issues such as yours inthe future.

    Thanks for that

    It's still a nice car, just not a concourse perfect no stories car. Maybe that's why it was
    Not invited to be shown at Monterey this year..?

    Just another point of. Jes the JUST yours
     
  16. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    #6941 joe sackey, Sep 1, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Bear in mind I'm not asking anyone to take my word for anything because I'm not offering the car for sale, plus, the incident has it's own publicly-disclosed detailed image link which has been up for 10 years, where you can see the damage was very minor.

    Also, my style is to typically pay what people ask if I like the deal or walk, rather than try to leverage them down, otherwise I would have used this same incident (which I witnessed) to leverage Raymond down to pay less! Ask Raymond if I did that to him.

    I think some people are making a mistake with this Mimran Downdraft thinking its just another car to me.

    Here is my perspective:

    I don't worry about ANY of the rather insignificant negative details people bring up because I consider that I am one seriously lucky SOB to own this car, its a once-in-a-lifetime type of car amongst many great cars of all makes & models for so many reasons. My perspective is, this is a dream car, and last I checked that dream car is in my garage. It was one of those things that was meant to be, the icing on the cake that comes along once-in-a-while when you work hard, and perhaps I'm old enough to have the sense to realize this. For example, I don't think what are Downdraft's worth and then value it accordingly, it's priceless, to me it IS Lamborghini history.

    Why do I prize it highly?

    Perhaps because I came to own it innocently by trying to facilitate a client after I tried to sell it for him and nobody would take, so I stepped up and took care of my client. My kind of story.

    Perhaps because I had dreamed for decades of doing a cost-no-object total restoration, my way to my satisfaction even if things have to be done twice over, and, I was able to make that dream come true with this car, and for the outcome to meet my sometimes too-high expectations.

    Perhaps because even though everyone told me you'll never find Patrick Mimran, and even if you find him, he'll never talk to you, not only did I find him, he talked to me, I was able to share the entire restoration process of my car with him, and he gave me permission to print the only exclusive interview regarding Lamborghini he has given in over 30 years (no, I did not pay him anything, he's sort of a billionaire, doesn't need my money!). Again, my kind of story.

    Perhaps because this car is absolutely unique in spec and livery amongst all Countachs, a true automotive Fabergé Egg if I've the common-sense to recognize one.

    I hope this conveys that this car is a little bit different, to me at least, and I'm not bothered if anyone agrees with me, its clear to anyone who talks to me about it that my feelings are genuine, and that's all that really matters.

    To help appreciate the car, here is my entire image library on the Mimran Downdraft, use the arrows to scroll to the right https://www.flickr.com/photos/joesac...in/dateposted/

    Here below are excerpts from the car’s history sheet:

    * Countach Quattrovalvole (LP112D) "Downdraft" chassis number ZA9C005A0GLA12997, specially-built for the CEO & owner of Nuova Automobili Ferruccio Lamborghini SpA, Patrick Mimran who saved Lamborghini from bankruptcy and turned it into the basis of today's global brand.

    * Built by Lamborghini to one-off livery, 'Bordeaux Speciale' paint with 'Panna' leather interior and 'Oro' wheels. Factory-tuned engine (Tipo L507 V4/73 carburatori, with special cams & additional oil-cooler @ 470 bhp) N°1202 was installed with gearbox N° 1013, and differential N° 909. Factory-supplied with leather headliner, and special Alpine electronics package.

    * Completed & delivered at Sant Agata on May the 13th 1986 for delivery to Switzerland, where it was Vaude-registered VD.256925 for Patrick Mimran.

    * Featured in the December 1986 edition of Road & Track magazine (Exotic Cars Quarterly N° 5) showing the car coming down the Sant Agata factory assembly line prior to build completion.

    * Sold by Mimran a number of years after he sold Lamborghini to American automaker, Chrysler.

    * GLA12997 remained in Switzerland for 29 years from new till 2015, the last 15 years of its life there in the hands of Countach enthusiast Raymond Stofer.

    * Certificate of Vehicle Original Configuration confirming specification issued by Automobili Lamborghini SpA on September 1st 2015.

    * Ownership history, special specification & livery certified by Valentino Balboni.

    * Featured in a short film “The Lamborghini Countach driven by Valentino Balboni” directed by Ben Bertucci and produced by Joe Sackey Classics LLC https://youtu.be/TorVQotPDNg

    * Featured in the July 2017 edition of Classic & Sports Car magazine in an article entitled “The Boss’ Countach” featuring an exclusive interview with Patrick Mimran himself.

    Apologies for the long-winded post, but after screwing around with cars for 30 years, you'll have to forgive me for extolling the virtues of one that I have come to realize is a little bit special. We are grateful to own it, appreciative of what it is, and we intend to enjoy it regardless.
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  17. raymondQV

    raymondQV F1 Rookie

    Aug 22, 2007
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    #6942 raymondQV, Sep 1, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
    The left rear Fender got damaged by a parking incident not accident, the ODO is attached to the left front hub. - do you see any correlation?
    Me not, also all KM were proved with the Emission document and regular Services.
    I bought GLA12997 in 2001 with 11'800km on the Odo and was also concerned about correctness, we checked the car up and down and it was obvious that it still had the original tires from 1986 and the Odo was accurate.
    I sold the car to Joe with over 70t km, nothing to hide and this car had no accident, a dent in the left rear Fender and broken flare is not an accident!

    Whoever followed the restoration could have seen that there was never any change/damage on the Chassis, everything was strictly factory.
    I'd say it's one of the best documented CT in the world, if anybody has a question visit www.countach.ch or contact me directly.

    Honestly I'm quite pissed about the offenses going around again, I'm sure the whole community is.
    Whoever missed the Occasion to buy this Special example, take your own nose, it was available for some time and everybody in the CT comunity knew...

    http://www.countach.ch/Session/Altbueron_Session%20(4).jpg
     
  18. rmolke85

    rmolke85 Formula Junior

    Mar 11, 2013
    755
    I have to say, the haters on this thread look stupid. Best Countach on the planet due to its documented history, and the level of restoration. I went through the whole car for over an hour. Anyone of you would be grinning ear to ear had you pulled of what Joe did. That car was available to all and you were asleep. No need to hate.

    Get out of this thread I (and many many others) are sick of reading your crappy posts.
     
  19. I wouldn't call them haters. More like rivalries. Many times they actually get along. Haters never do. Both sides dish it out from time to time, so you come to expect it.
     
  20. Countachqv

    Countachqv Formula 3

    Apr 25, 2007
    2,350
    USA/France
    "Whoever missed the Occasion to buy this Special example, take your own nose, it was available for some time and everybody in the CT comunity knew..."

    I think Raymond summed it up. It is not like someone "stole" it or some secret deal was going on.
    By the way is this a thread turning into the Mimram Countach restoration or the DD in general? Getting confused.
    Hoping this thread gets back on track from all sides.
     
  21. Ellagirl

    Ellagirl F1 Rookie

    Aug 20, 2014
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    Agree,lets be honest, we are a bunch of overgrown kids,with expensive toys, altough some replies are very women with a period ish,kinda like,personal downgrading, wich really does not bother the reciever, but really makes the deliverer sound extremely insecure, and ruins the otherwise very well written argument,
     
  22. roytoy2003

    roytoy2003 F1 Veteran

    Jul 30, 2004
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    Roy L. Cats
    A lot of assumptions here...

    Raymond, I nor anyone else that I know of made and CLAIM that you did anything to the ODO. As far as the accident, in the USA, this "accident" would be recorded as just that on CarFax and Autocheck...a collision with another vehicle...maybe minor, but it is still an accident....maybe not in Europe, but it is here...as a matter of fact, the CarFax would read..

    "Collision with another vehicle, no airbags deployed, vehicle movable" ..period end of story.

    As far as the vehicle, I have said numerous times it is a nice vehicle, and most likely the most well documented Countach of recent years, in superior cosmetic and mechanical condition. Dont think anyone thinks it was hidden, are mad that Joe got it and did what he did to it, I am glad he did, opens the rest of the world eyes to these cars.

    I just pointed out NO MATTER what two things:


    1) This car HAS had damage to it, so no claim that its never been hit, you cant say that, no matter what. No big deal, minor in my eyes, but it is what it is. You CAN NEVER tell possible buyer its never been hit or damaged.


    2) It IS a TMU vehicle, period end of story. Regardless if its only 75 miles as Joe states...does not matter, BECAUSE NO ONE KNOWS for SURE the miles it obtained while the ODO cable was out of service, hence the label of TMU TRUE MILEAGE UNKNOWN.

    I dont think these are death sentences to this car or any other car if presented correctly..BUT IT is items that would need to be disclosed. For fairness sake, JOE has in the past dis-credited "other" cars with these same issues, but now its OK cause its on his car. Recall this statement and make it on the next car that have the same issues as this one... APPLE to APPLE.

    At the end, nice car, excellent documentation...AND ABOVE ALL the OWNER, Joe is happy with it!! Thats all that matters in the long run.
     
  23. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ

    May 23, 2006
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    Joe Sackey
    #6948 joe sackey, Sep 1, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thank you Raymond for your clarification, please take heart, NOTHING will stop me from enjoying this car :) and regarding it as anything less than a better-than-new fully-restored one-off Countach Downdraft of peerless Lamborghini heritage, I know what I have, and I thank you again for making it possible.

    Remember, this is the same car that its recent detractors would LOVE to own!

    As regards the mileage, if we consider that whenever a Countach speedo becomes inoperative it automatically becomes a TMU car, then @ 40% of all Countachs (@800 cars) at this point should have their Titles changed to reflect same! :eek: :rolleyes: The utter stupidity of the aforementioned notion speaks for itself. In fact, I have irrefutable proof that at least two (2) Countachs that should be declared TMU examples that have passed through Cats Exotics possession on the basis of his ridiculous assertions, the QV HLA12115 sold by them multiple times, and the LP500S 12562 still owned by them. I guess that under Federal Law, he will take immediate steps to ensure that the aforementioned vehicles are a branded TMU vehicles and their current Titles issued would reflect this, don't worry I'm sure Roy is going to get right on this :rolleyes: :D

    After owning many significant Lamborghinis from the ex-Shah of Iran's Miura SV to the ex-Silvera LP400 over a 30-year period, I can say that none of them compare to the satisfaction this car has given us for all the reasons previously stated. I am happy with what you sold me and what I have subsequently done with it, and unlike some people, my wife says I smile in my sleep ;)

    Rich, thanks for the compliments on the car, you can talk, because you actually travelled to California and spent time with it!

    Meanwhile, there is a good saying - Misery Loves Company :eek: :D

    You can see that the initial comments about the car's speedo being inop was simply a setup for Roy to chime in and hate, so I agree with you, hating simply makes you look stupid, and is a poor reflection of only one person - the hater. Hating by it's very nature is an admission of insecurity and jealousy, and simply documents that the hater is hating because they perceive that you have something they don't or can't. There are courses to correct this that you can take at UCLA :eek: or just read the book "How To Win Freinds & Influence People" :D

    Crappy posts? You are too kind by half :D meanwhile all this publicity is noise that is great for the car.

    Joey, you Sir possess the patience of Job and the the diplomacy of Lincoln :) please take that as the ultimate compliment ;) but, there is no other way you can spin this one, what we have seen here is pure unadulterated hating, period.

    Patrick, this is the Downdraft thread, and isn't the Mimran Downdraft a Downdraft? :)

    Let's remember, I could have started a one-car thread as we have seen elsewhere, but, I started a thread that includes ALL Downdrafts, including yours, in a thread mostly maintained by me at not inconsiderable effort on my part. So relax and enjoy the show, and rest assured, it's one of the best thread's on FChat, why do you think it gets so many views, including regular daily attendance from even the haters? :rolleyes: :D

    Meanwhile, if anyone feels they are seeing a lot of the Mimran Downdraft, they may have to get used to it.

    Just for you and to get this thread back on track, here is a non-Mimran Downdraft, caption this one "Here comes Tadek".

    PS- its a long weekend, and the weather is forecast as great, we all know what that means, right? :eek: :)
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  24. ijvpet

    ijvpet Formula Junior

    Jul 17, 2002
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    John P
    I LOVE THE COUNTACH

    I just realized something just now... OMG I LOVE IT EVEN MORE!

    lol...
     
  25. PineChris

    PineChris Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2013
    1,082
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    Chris
    My post was certainly not a setup for Roy.. It was a setup to show the hypocrite that is Joe Sackey. When I purchased my Countach, you were the first to call it out for having an accident report on its carfax ( which I clarified by having the supporting paperwork from the police report, and repair as happening in a parking lot ( sound familiar) and the damage being relegated to the front chin spoiler, and curbed passenger wheel) . You were quick to dismiss this as being Accident history. You additionally pointed out an ad from a phony dealer who never even had my car in his possession as showing a mileage discrepancy. The odd aspect, was the owner specifically mentioned you as one of the people trying to low ball him on my car. And you were certainly quick to reveal its discrepancies once I purchased it.

    Now when the shoe is on the other foot, issues such as these are irrelevant. If Joe Sackey drives around in a Countach with the odometer disconnected, or not working, this is not an issue, because it took Valentino Balboni to notice it, and Joe driving with a broken or disconnected odometer is the equivalent of the factory test drivers doing so when it was new. You can try and fluff this car till kingdom come, you can try and discredit others by labeling them as jealous haters who wish they owned it, you can tell us about the magazines and videos ( Ted at Petrolicious surely has some very interesting opinions on it and you) and you can tell us till you are blue in the face that this car is your swan song Countach that will never be for-sale. We have heard it all before. When was the last time you posted and buttered up the 25th Anniversary thread?
     

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