+5, +7
Just copying others who have done the testing in the past. He learns the hard way just like not walking the track in Baku when they raced there the first time. The work ethic is lacking compared to others. Now this year after losing to a harder working and smarter driver last year the light bulb finds illumination. Having talent does not mean there is no work to be done. This is not a commendable act but one that is over due from such a 'great' driver LOL!! The un-originality continues LOL
I like Lewis, but his work ethic has been severely lacking. It is good he is finally catching on, but he also needs to follow through, like Seb does.
I must admit that I'm being convinced by Hamilton as a postulant to GOAT team. What he does off track is not of my concern. And in track I can see he is maturing and this is convincing me. About the statistics, I always keep in mind that in 1990 we had 16 races, 19 in 2005 and 21 in 2016, which makes "easier" to have more poles and wins...
Poles should be measured as a % of races entered for that reason. That normalizes the conversation (somewhat).
Hamilton has benefitted from the best machinery any F1 driver has ever driven over the course of their career in the history of the sport. The guy has literally never had a bad car. Maybe you could say the MP4-24 in 2009 but after their huge upgrade at Germany that year the car was among the best and a multi race winner. Figured you would chime in since you love Hamilton. He is your guy and you're one of his most ardent supporters. Then you log on here and try to act like you don't which is weird. You can cheer him on man, it's cool. Just wear it on your sleeve. Come out of the Hamilton fan closet LOL
HAM % is way above Schumachers... What great pilot did not have the ultimate car in its hands? Senna in toleman? Schumi in Benneton?
Schumacher drove the Jordan (ok, 1 race), rest of season in a Benetton. The following year it was still not a good car. The 96 Ferrari was a turd. The 97 wasn't good either but Schumacher did special things with it, he was on the only driver able to do anything against the Williams. Irvine was off the scale, nowhere in the championship. Those are 4 seasons alone of not having good cars, as bad or worse than Elton's 2009 car. When did Schumacher have a truly dominant car? 2002 and 2004, obviously. I question 1994, he dominated it but his teammates where hopeless with it.
Yes, both drivers had sub-par cars during their rise in Formula 1, so we saw them do special things with lesser machinery. In this sense, poles as a % of race entries is not as fair a measure. That's why I said it "somewhat" normalizes the conversation. (It was Schumi in Jordan/early-Benetton and early-Ferrari that were his "lesser" cars...)
Exactly. I mean, Hulkenberg is now what, 135 races in, but still without a podium. Stroll has had one in the first 10 races. Does that make stroll a better driver? I think everyone would disagree that he is. Statistics vs teammate is more interesting IMO. Even that is of course not scientifically accurate as one could have a Palmer as a teammate. To me, without a shadow of doubt, Schumacher has been paired with pretty damn fast drivers over time. Verstappen, Brundle (remember he was the one that fought Senna tooth and nail all the way), Herbert, Barrichello where all above average. Even Eddie Irvine was no slouch. Schumacher made all of them look average. Towards the end of his career he was of course in his 40s, even still then he kept Rosberg honest...and IMO 2011 & 2012 he matched and beat him, just unlcuky with car failures. The same Rosberg of course who won a title over Hamilton and kept Hamilton honest all those years.
Hey chaps, this is the elton sucks thread, exactly where denigrating that total dipstick is supposed to be done, and should be expected. Those that love him are well advised not to come play if they don't like hearing the truth about their god, or they are welcome to come in and lock friendly horns. Just don't be moaning that he gets a tooling in this thread Elton sucks , so it be written, so it be said!
You have no idea how I think. If you'd see my home, you wouldn't find a single MB/Hamilton item but lots of Ferrari/Schumacher/Massa/Barrichello/Alonso/Kimi/Irvine/Alesi memorabilia. Signed helmets, car models, signed lithographs, books etc etc. In fact I have so much Ferrari stuff, let me know if you need something. Happy to send you a gift, no problem.
The three best drivers of modern times have all had THE dominate car. Vettel's four World Championships were the most boring ever. He got out in front in the first corner and no one saw the Red Bull car ever again, for 4 boring years. What made it even more dull was that Red Bull was a soda pop company and not even an interesting car company with a rich history worth talking about. Hamilton like Vettel is now on the verge of four World Championships, he did make a bold move shifting to MB when no one had any idea the team would buck the trend that sank BMW, Toyota, and Honda (Big companies who think they can spend their way to a F1 championship). Hamilton made the gamble and it paid off. Boring for Ferrari fans who love to hate Hamilton. Schumacher's dominate car made F1 so boring from 2000 to 2004 that it wasn't worth watching the race, you knew who was going to win before you turned on the TV. In 1994 and 1995 it felt like he won those years because of the lack of driver talent as the loss of Senna diminished a rivalry between two champions and left fans feeling a great loss for a sport in mourning. The top ten guys in F1 are so good, that its become a sport all about the dominate car. And unless you are a Computer Engineer and software designer its not about driver development of the car anymore. Meanwhile, making fun of Hamilton's off-track life and personality is what helps Ferrari fans purge their energy, anger and frustration. Its natural human behavior for sports fans when their team or guy isn't winning for years on end.
I never found Schumacher drives boring, and in fact, the 2002 and 2004 cars aside, every season he fought to win the titles. 1994 and 1995 he was up against the Williams, a much better car but with Damon hill driving it, equalising things and Schumacher came through on skill The 1996 ferrari was a pile of ****, but again Michael made it win. Elton would have parked it, he hasn't the talent to develop a car. Yes, he is quick and can turn up and drive (so could I when I raced), but as for intelligence, cunning, forethought, planning....... total dunce. Michael and Ross ran the race team by radio in race day, Michael planned everything and took into account drivers ten places behind if necessary. Elton struggles to change tyres when he's told without arguing the toss, and has to have his race directed from the pits. He has no clue where he is at any time in the race without checkin, and can't even follow his own strategy, let's alone integrate someone else's strategy into the equation and counter it like schumi would every weekend. Like I said, he is fast, no one doubts that, even me with gritted teeth, but he just drives, that's all. Give him a car that's average, he will be average. Give him a crap car, he will park it and retire. That's the difference, and that's why people like me despise his bull**** and the press/fans that claim he is the second ****ing coming
I get where you're coming from, Vettel's 4 titles seemed "easy" as he had no one to battle (not strictly true as the only time he lead the 2010 championship was after every crossed the finish in Abu Dhabi, and in 2012 had fierce competition from Alonso)...but what made it "boring" was that Vettel was out there by himself, having no one to fight. It wasn't because he simply beat his teammate....nope, Webber was often fighting just trying to get on the podium. Vettel beat everyone. Obviously that meant getting the best of his car, because if he couldn't manage that he would be down there with Webber fighting for 3rd or 5th or whatever. I found Hamilton's (or rather Mercedes) Dominance far more boring. Part of this is the current formula, part of this is because I don't like Hamilton in particular....and part of it is because I never really got excited about a Mercedes win. After Schumacher and then Brawn left, their F1 team became more corporate. I don't really care what car is winning when Ferrari is not. But I find Red Bull a whole lot more exciting than Mercedes, even though the latter has a very long racing history (outside of F1). Whilst Red Bull may sell soda cans, I much prefer their atmosphere. I like their attitude (save for their endless moaning about leaving the sport...but who doesn't do that). Chris Horner has been great for the team and when he started was around half the age of the average team manager, and look how well he's done. Mercedes with their corporate structure, even their winning is boring. With Ferrari, we get italians utterly joyful talking on the radio in Italian and (broken) English. With Red Bull we get totally excited guys bursting out in joy...with Mercedes? "Well managed". It's those little things with Mercedes that just bore me to tears. I always get the feeling their totally orchestrating everything that happens, they are in total control. They even like to get fans hopes up by running only just ahead in practice, and even Q1 and Q2 before turning up the wick and demolishing everyone, and then dare to say "oh yeah it was really close but we somehow managed it". It's not an anti-hamilton thing either. I got about having the same excitment about owning a gold fish if Rosberg won. Mercedes have somehow managed to suck all the joy out of F1. I used to watch as much as possible, if I was near a TV I'd be watching all bits of the weekend. Now? I find myself missing half the weekend and even races because I find myself going to the pub.
+1 he asked for tires in the lead at Monaco not at all long before the end of the race and lost LOL!!! Hello track position LOL
Poles Yes - Fastest Laps No. Poles Lewis: 69 - 34.33% Michael: 68 - 22.15% Fastest Laps Michael: 77 - 25.08% Lewis: 37 - 18.41%
Not sure I get the point of interrogating the Pole stat to the nth degree. It won't tell us anything we don't already know. Bottom line is this - Ham and MS both had periods of great dominance in top cars. Ham has scored more poles and will continue to do so - he is obviously one of the fastest when it comes to outright speed. But that will never change one crucial fact - MS was a better all round racer who was smarter than Ham and a better tactician both in the car and out of it.
Absolutely right, and add to that the number of races in a season with a dominant car, the stats should be way mire skewed in Elton's favour, yet it isn't, cos he struggles to best his teammates
You can't compare different eras. Qualifying rules for Michael were different for 95% of his career. Often, they would sacrifice pole to qualify with settings optimized for the race. This is because they qualified on race fuel loads back then. Had the current format been in place for his whole career, MSC would have undoubtedly bagged another 20-25 poles. All you have to do is look at Schumacher's pole to win ratio versus Hamilton. Hamilton is not even close.
