MCLAREN 720S OR 488

So a guy who only drives on city streets in congested traffic and believes all cars super or otherwise, feel the same in that driving environment, owns a 4C which might be the least comfortable DD around. And he considers the 4C a Ferrari?

 

Got both cars, cant say I concur with your POV at all.

But to each their own.

 

ain't that the truth.amen.

 

I'm not sure if we are going to see many magazine tests of 720s. They don't seem to be having any trouble selling them so not much incentive to do a test or publicize what might have already been done.

I do know that motor trend was trying a bunch of cars at laguna seca a couple of months ago and 488 was one of them. (Ferrari had their techs for on site support). I believe that episode is going to be released in October some time .


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Same here, despite believing the Speciale is a modern classic, the 488 is a marvel.

 

for most of us you are 100% correct. we care about emotion and feel, not masturbating over a couple tenths of a second

but there are still those out there who love their data. They dont care if its fun to drive as long as they can point to a video on youtube and proudly exclaim ' my car is faster'

 

yup

 

in what ways is it a marvel? because all i see is a bad 458 in it. the 360 in so many obvious ways, moved the game on from the 355, the 430 with eDiff and a substantially more rigid chassis moved the game on from 360, and then the 458 again improved dramatically over 430...but when i got my 488 it was, like, geez, we went backwards in everything except straight line power... whats the marvel on the 488?

 

Not as sharp as the Speciale, but compared to the Italia it is even more well behaved, with superior electronics, steering and brakes. It is an Italia successor after all; the GTO (or whatever it might be called) will be Speciale's.

 

Totally agree.

 

Yep, you are absolutely right. The original NSX shake things up...great point

 

Damn!! I was hoping with the switch over to the new website that this thread would somehow be lost. No such luck!!

 

Funny.

 

+1

 

+ 2

 

This thread has continued as long as it has because the 720S may well be a paradigm shifting development. This is is a super car that looks the part, performs at a near hyper car level and is priced in line with Lambo and 488. The 720S will be the catalyst for the competition to up its game and do so expeditiously. All this is only of benefit to the car enthusiast.

 

Yes. We know. 720 rocks. Best car ever. Nothing like it in the history of....oh look....squirrel!

 

Sounds like "Hear No Evil, See No Evil, Speak No Evil." Ignorance is not bliss and I for one would like to hear as much as possible about any car that advances the art.

 

675LT

 

What ignorance?? What else needs to be said about the car that hasn't been said already? Is there anything new being posted? I get it. 488 sucks- 720 great. Anything else?

 

It is not so much ignorance as it is the constant drip-drip-drip of how great the 720s is and, as stated above, we have all gotten the news on the 720s.

 

Nope. That sounds like an accurate assessment

 

Hilarious

 

The 488's improvements over the 458 fall into two categories; natural evolution and significant development. The exterior and interior design fall into the first category and they have done a sensible and sound update of a car which, itself, was already a 'marvel'. Good decision. The 488's exterior has been the most controversial judging by views of people on fchat, but since they were forced to include additional venting to feed the intercoolers, they knew that would produce a more aggressive look. Making the 488 a subtly more aggressive design all over, perhaps at the cost of some of the voluptuous beauty of the 458 but without compromising the car's overall aesthetic appeal is the sort of thing you expect of a great manufacturer.

But, Ferraris are as much, or even more, about the driving feel as they are about appearance and luxury. And this is where Ferrari have really excelled with the 488. First, the chassis is a significant improvement over the 458, incorporating the feel of the Speciale into the new standard car. SSC is a significant piece of added software that is now across the range but was not present in the 458 - I personally really like it, and what it has allowed them to introduce into the tuning of the rest of the chassis - even more playfulness and confidence. I have now driven both Speciale and 488 extensively on road and track and still own both cars, I know you said your experience was different but I have no idea why - I can obviously only speak from my own experience and for reference I push my cars hard enough to feel what they are like at and very close to the limit. There is a very similar feeling to 488 and Speciale in terms of chassis development. Even the new P Zero tyre performs much more closely to the MIchelin Cups on the Speciale, whereas the old P Zero on the 458 was nowhere near.

The second area where the 488 is a marvel is the engine. This affects three main areas - power, driveability and throttle response. The last two are critical to attaining the 'Ferrari feel' in terms of driving, the first, important but not critical. Being 'forced' (as I believe they were due to emissions legislation restricting further increases in compression ratio from the Speciale's 14:1) to adopt turbo, the characteristics prioritise those three elements in a different order - power, driveability, throttle respons. Exactly the reverse of where Ferrari have been heading. So, at a time when their best competitor had an engine with approximately 600nm of torque, they developed one with 760nm. The purpose of this was to spend some of that torque on a world-first idea, to turn a turbo engine into one that feels naturally aspirated in terms of throttle response, without sacrificing the massive additional power increases that turbocharging allows. By reducing the gearing and heavily managing the intervention of boost from the turbocharger, they have achieved an arguably stronger balance in all three elements compared to even the wonderful 458 engine. No, throttle response is not quite as good as the Speciale, but I would say it is as good as the 458. Either way it is very difficult to detect much of a deficit. My McLaren was nowhere near this level, nowhere.

Turbocharged engines are actually excellent in terms of driveability on the road and the 488 doesn't sacrifice much of this by removing the 'boosty' feeling of normal turbo engines. As for power, the power is well beyond plenty, if not at the level of the 720. All in all, they were the first to come up with this idea, it works brilliantly, and it is fundamental to Ferrari playing the game they have to play but still not compromising their own style and approach. It's clever, effective and.....marvellous.

The sound is also a key category and the third 'marvel'. Quite a controversial comment perhaps, but compared to the Mac engine, the 488 sound is a measurable step up. Both my Mac and 488 were spiders - the best format for gauging sound. The Speciale sounds great, but not as life-affirming as some here seem to suggest. Not a patch on my CS for instance. Whereas, many have criticised the 488's note but I personally like it. It is aggressive, metallic, tuneful - albeit a baritone sound, and the pops and crackles on the overrun I happen to love. Not quite as sweet as an Italia but that is an n/a engine, but the 488 is basically as good as my Speciale which has a bit more scream at the top but is far quieter on the overrun. My argument is that Ferrari are 'forced' to use turbo and as such, I don't know of a better sounding one (don't say AMG because that is not a flat plane crank engine and gives a totally different sound to what is required from a Ferrari).

I've just come back from a 2k mile drive around France including the alps, Côte d'Azur and across country. The car was loaded full, had to cope with all kinds of driving - motorway, fast sweeping roads, shorter radius 'B' roads, alpine roads, towns, speed bumps, narrow Côte d'Azur streets, car trains, ferries, sun, torrential rain the lot. In Spider form the 488 was an absolutely exceptional tool for this task and I had a fantastic time. There were times (and I have to whisper this) where the extra power and driveability of the turbo engine were a real positive. The fact that I can have this without sacrificing that wonderful Ferrari feel, is brilliant.

I'm not saying that the 720 wouldn't have its own fantastic moments, and many of them, on the same trip - of course it would. But you asked why the 488 is a marvel and these are some of my reasons.

 

Love my 488 and hope that everyone feels the same way about whatever they drive. No need for any of us to justify it. I know, at the end of the day, I am at peace with my selection.