Exhaust manifold leak/previous repair work...

All, I purchased my Giallo F430 F1 Spider about a year ago; a picture is below:

The car had just over 10k miles when I bought it, and I've added another 2k since. Not surprisingly, I am concerned about exhaust header cracks/leaks, particularly as I track the car, which presumably puts extra stress on the exhaust system. I've listened for noises on startup, looked for white powder under the hood, etc. However, in reading a number of posts recently, it seems that a gas smell on startup may be an early symptom of a cracked manifold. Since I got the car, there's occasionally been a raw gas smell when the car starts up, though I didn't think too much of it as it only occurred when the car hadn't been driven in several days/weeks. Also, the smell is strongest near the tail pipes/muffler rather at the front of the engine bay where the headers are. Should I be concerned?

Also, flipping through the car's service records, I found that in 11/08, "Campaign 291" was performed for an exhaust rattle. This seems to include a reinforcement bracket for the tailpipes. However, also listed was replacement of both "front exhaust manifolds" using "70001347 manifold kit." Does anyone know exactly what this service was about and what it means if anything re: manifold leaks?

Finally, I looked into header replacement at a prominent garage in San Diego (not FSD), and it was clear that they weren't going to replace the headers, as such a change wouldn't pass the emissions testing. What have others in CA done in this situation, particularly as it regards emissions testing? Fix the old headers? Has anyone failed the visual inspection? Any suggestions for places that will be comfortable in replacing the stock headers with aftermarket ones?

Thanks, and sorry for the long post!

 

Any car engine is going to have a fuel smell at start up, just bits of unburnt fuel coming through the system, the old cars used to be worse.
If you want to check the manifolds then drop off the panel under the engine and have a look.
If you look on Capristo.de web site they have a picture showing the standard exhaust brackets that you can compare with what you have. To give yourself some reliability think about fitting capristo expansion brackets on the exhaust, you will see them on the web site.
No idea on your emission issue as does not apply here

 

Hi Ya
Im thinking of getting one in the near future so am interested in this. My son performs offshore inspections within the field called NDT (Non destructive testing) may be worth looking into it as this would show up any cracking and potential flaws within the manifold. There are several techniques that could be applied but I should imagine dye penetrant inspection either fluorescent or normal would suffice. This would also be at minimal costing and would show exactly where any trouble may be.
Martin

 

A strong gas smell would more likely be bad fuel pumps, with the casing cracked.

 

The white powder issue is just the silencer box, not the headers as far as I'm aware? JFI

 

No, the stock header units have a heat shield layer and the cavity between the pipes and the shield is filled with insulation. When the shielding cracks, you see the white dust due to the insulation being forced out.

 

Dye would require filling the header with some sort of liquid, no?

The best, easiest and most accurate would be a smoke test. Pressurize the system with a smoke machine, and look to see where it comes out.

 

My bad, sorry! I didn't realise that.....I'll keep an eye out myself for that too! Would've confused me somewhat if I'd seen that stuff returning after swapping my system! lol

 

The OP mentioned reinforced brackets to repair an exhaust rattle. Doing this will very much increase the chances of headers cracking. The system needs to expand and contract. The 360 does not have the same rigid exhaust brackets and consequently has only a fraction of the header issues of the 430. A simple improvement is to remove the lower brackets and bin them. The exhaust does not sag at all without them.
The first symptom of my cracked header was the white insulation being pushed out from under the header heat shields visible from underneath

 

Hey guys, thanks for all of the input! Mike32, re: the gas smell, yep, that's why I didn't think too much of it to date. Dicecal, I was assuming that a leaky fuel pump would result in a gasoline smell that persists; is that true? In this case, there really isn't a smell once the car runs a minute or so. RedTaxi, great point re: the reinforced brackets! I'll definitely pull the lower brackets, and I'll throw on the Capristo bracket soon. Martin, Rosso, good info on the smoke testing; I'm sure the local independent shop can do this. Finally, Mike32 and RedTaxi, it does sound like it's time to lift the car and have a look.

Thanks again, everyone!

 

If you do lift the car, a good set of railway sleeper size wooden blocks are good to support the car on, lot safer than axle stands

 

Let's go back to the OP's question about the potential of failing visual inspection in Cali emissions testing. We know this is a theoretical problem; however, in the first-hand experience of this board, are CA cars actually failing visual for either aftermarket headers and/or exhaust?

 

I looked around and there aren’t a ton of posts re: pulling the lower brackets to reduce stress on the exhaust. Looking at the diagram, it’s a very logical approach to reducing longitudinal stress on the system, though. Is there any reason that this isn’t done more often? Thanks!

 

Interesting; I’ve never done that with other cars, always using stands. I can see how it would be stable, though. Where do you place the blocks?

 

Agreed, theoretical concern, but not a lot of data on how this is working out for people in the real world. That said, it seems unlikely that someone w/o experience with the car would be able to spot an aftermarket header, for example.

The final issue is re: finding shops that will do the replacement seems complicated, as it doesn’t appear to be legal to do mods that increase emissions on a street vehicle in CA. Perhaps this issue is best dealt with via PM’s.

 

I can definitely give you recommendations for installers in your area that I have used, or ones clients of mine have used that wouldn't have an issue installing a set of aftermarket headers so you're not dealing with this in the future. We are having a big promotion on our Sport Headers right now until the end of the month for the members going over preventative maintenance repairs/replacements right now. Give me a shout if I can help in any way!

 

I'll email you.

 

BTW, I spoke to the aforementioned prominent San Diego garage, and he was of the opinion that it was likely one or both of the fuel pumps. Still not sure how this jibes with the lack of fuel smell when the engine is off (assuming the pump continues to leak when the engine is turned off) and the instant smell of gas when the engine starts. Oh well. I'm going to have to start taking things apart this weekend...

 

Fuel pumps are mounted to the tank tops, so no leakage when not running.

 

I have been

I have been running my 430 Spider for 3 years with that smell of gas on start up. I have also had fitted the A.P. manifolds with the rear Capristo brackets. Change the manifolds ASAP as its a ticking time bomb with the original manifolds.

 

I am very curious about the visual inspection also, since I live in Socal and have aftermarket headers. When I took my truck in for smog, my aftermarket intake did not have a carb sticker, so they failed me right away. However, I do wonder if they would notice anything visual on an F430 without knowing what to look for. Headers are hard to see from the top, and no way to look under without taking off the tray. I am running minicats with O2 spacers, that might give it away. However, I am not throwing any codes or CEL.

 

This above is utter rubbish, manifold heat shield do not break, it is the muffler breaking down(look up Aldous Voice F430 website), totally harmless, I know, I've had both cracked manifolds (at the 2 into 1 pipe which is always the standard, it's the weakest point!) and a degrading muffler, as I like the stock sound I've welded the crack in my stock manifolds and heat wrapped them, all good for the last 18 months pm and off track, if they crack again I'll remove and re-weld them, its always at the same weak point, not even close the the pre-cat which is another load of rubbish generated to scare the cr@p out of owners, look up my YouTube manifold repair videos. total cost is pennies, or cents depending on where you live.

 

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Here are some pics of the brackets who hold the exhaust housing (=rear demper housing/24kg) up. If those start to break (left bracket) be aware of failure. In the end the full wheight of the demper will break the manifold as it heats/cool time after time. The welds will be stressed by the 24kg and the will break, resulting into the famous failure of the manifolds.

As long the brackets are fine there will be no issue what so ever on the manifolds. You can see the brackets thrugh the netting just above the diffuser or by removing the diffuser (as by these pictures)

Left bracket, starting to fail: Image Unavailable, Please Login


Right bracket, still ok: Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I just use a trolley jack to get the blocks under the wheels on 1 side, then do the other side- if you want it higher then repeat the process