Portofino Launch and picture thread

I'm curious, have you driven the Cali T back to back ti the Cali 30 with HS? I read somewhere that the impression the an older Cali on sport mode is like a Cali 30 with HS on comfort mode.

How do you compare handling between the Cali 30 with HS and Cali T (both with and without HS)? Is the Cali 30 with HS more or less similar to the Cali T ? Or is the Cali T on another level?

 

Owen, I'll PM you.

 

FWIW, if you think all Calis are too soft you should try my Cali30. I drove it on a former F1 circuit some weeks ago and the F12 in front of me was slowing me down in the corners. The F12 has much more torque and HP so he was faster in the straights and coming out of corners but going in, I was all over him. I caught up every time he slowed for a corner. That was weeks ago.[/QUOTE]
I disrespectful disagree. Going in and coming out of corners in any road or circuit in the world, the difference of a F12 performance to any Cali is so huge that what you've mentioned is only possible if the F12 driver was letting it happen on purpose or had very poor driving skills.

 

By mistake I referred I disrespectful disagree but I rispectful disagree

 

Well, I apologize if I ruffled a few F12 feathers but perhaps your reaction is a bit premature. I will be more specific and try to explain with more details.

Firstly, I pointed out the F12 was faster on the straights and corner exits. The F12 would easily pull away on those occasions even though I kept my engine in the peak torque band across the entire course.

I also didn't say the Cali30 is faster, I said my Cali30 caught up to the F12 when entering corners. If you look up the test reports on these cars, for instance those from MotorTrend, they tested the 2010 Cali stopping at 100 feet from 60 mph vs the 2014 F12 at 106 feet from 60 mph. That is a significant edge.

 

hmm???

 

I respectfully disagree ………that's how it should have been written

 

Any comparison I can make is based uniquely on my practical experience of driving my Cali from the early generation, driving the Cali T as well and finally having used the F12 on the road and also on the track. Despite of the fact that I liked a lot my aspirated Cali and thought it was a great car and the most versatile Ferrari I could have, I can assure you that in terms of performance any comparison with the F12 could sound anecdotical. Just to give you a very simple example there is a particular curve in a motorway where I used to pass frequently with my Cali and the car did that curve in it's absolute limits at 190 Km/hour with a great side movement. With the F12 I do that same curve at 220 Km/hour with the mannetino setting in sport and at 230 Km/hour with the setting in race and the car grips like if it was on rails, the side movement incomparably smaller than the one on the Cali and I have the sensation I'm not in the limit and if I wish I could do it faster. The last time I drove the F12 on the track it was in a circuit that was used for formula 1 racing during many years. That day there was one particular Cali 30 with someone at the wheel which was always driving in the limits and trying to race everyone. While I was doing a relaxed lap in the chicane part of the circuit I remember seeing in the mirror behind me this Cali at high speed and the driver was really trying to pass me. I decided not to let him pass and after four or five tight curves he was already more than 50 meters behind. When we exit the last parabolic curve before the long straight the difference was more than 100 meters and by the end of the straight I couldn't see that Cali anymore on my mirror. It's not my intention to be disrespectful or to offend any Cali owner but what I just described it's the crude reality.

 

Mario, I don't doubt your experiences and I applaud your track performance in the F12 but I did not compare the cornering ability of my Cali30 HS to the F12 and I said the F12 is faster in the straights and corner exits. I said I caught up to him at the corner ENTRIES... most probably because I braked later than he did. OTOH, you are describing the superior cornering abilities of the F12 over your older non-HS Cali, which I do not doubt as that's why I spent about CAD 20k retrofitting my Cali30 with the HS option. Your old Cali is not the same as my Cali30 HS.

I can only report what I experienced.

At any rate, we must not hijack this thread. Please PM me if you want to discuss this further.

 

Lol, it would have been more awesome if you just said "I disrespectfully disagree" when everyone just expect the usual politically correct term of respectfully disagree. It for sure will throw people off. Haha. From now on, "disrespectfully disagree" is kept in my verbiage.

 

The Cali and Cali T are both on the entry side in terms of performance compared to a 458/488 or F12/TDF.

The Cali chassis was not very rigid. And somehow the rear end tended to power slide when accelerating out of a turn. I found that Better tires helped but only somewhat.

The end result is a mediocre track time relative to the aforementioned Fcars. Just look at the Fiorano lap times. There is a time for the Cali T. The NA Cali was never published because it was too unflattering.

The new Portofino will have major improvements in terms of chassis, engine, shift times, suspension/handling.

But still not faster on the track than the F12 never mind 488 or 812.

However, if there is enough interest, we could see a track inspired Portofino version

 

A Cali apparently did 7:56 on the Ring, same time as a 360 CS, 996 Turbo, a Z06, 997 Carrera S and a Panamera Sport Chrono Turbo driven by Walter Rohrl.

If you're really persistent... or insistent, you would be able to Google it yourself or I could post it for you in the morning. My advice, give it a break.

 

I've had plenty of seat time in a 360, Cali and 45 spider (owned each for about 65,000 miles or more per vehicle)

My opinion was that my 360 with challenge sport exhaust was slightly faster and sportier than my Cali.

Compared to my 458, the Cali isn't equal- it isn't in the same league for all out performance.

Look at the Nordschleiffe times and compare the NA Cali to the 458 or F12 times
(The absent track time I was referring to was the Ferrari Fiorano time which is conducted by the factory using optimized tire / suspension set-up, best available weather conditions,
and driven by a factory test driver who knows the track and the vehicle extremely well.) No NA Cali time was published.

People chose the Cali and Cali T for reasons other than the track performance.

I enjoyed my Cali and am happy to see
that the lineage continues proudly with the Portofino

Looking forward to seeing the driving reviews.

 

Yes, the Cali was not developed by Ferrari to compete with the F12, FF or 458. Why would Ferrari do that?

So we agree with the obvious. What I don't agree with is where you said "...The NA Cali was never published because it was too unflattering...". If you read my last message on Ring times you will see what you said is plain, flat untrue.

In fact, if you look up the Ring time for a F430, it did a 07:55 vs. the 07:56 for a Cali in 2010. It wasn't an HS or even a Cali30. For the uninitiated, the F430 is the mid-engine predecessor to the 458 with 490 PS while the front-mid-engine 2010 Cali only has 460 PS and has to drag around a folding metal roof. And their Ring times only differed by 1 second. BTW, the Cali Ring time was also better than that of a Dodge Viper SRT-10, a Nissan Skyline GT-R, a Lambo Gallardo, 575 Maranello and 550 Maranello...etc.

As I said Ferrari would not have made the Cali compete with the 458, FF or F12 - if anything they would instead do the exact opposite. So this is a silly discussion. Other than that, a good driver can apparently get decent performance out of a Cali.

As for a better performing NA Cali, you can pick a Cali30, the HS Pack, as well as upgrade a host of other bits and pieces on the car. I don't believe you have driven those before.

So can we please focus on the Portofino and stop hijacking this thread????

 

true true true... but the California T is an absolute blast for the driver that goes to the track couple times a year.

 

What times does the California T get? HS?

 

1:29.80.... FWIW, 360 CS did a 1:26.50 vs 1:31.00 for 360 Modena - no times for HS variants found.

 

If we look at Vairano track , we find that the NA Cali has the 83rd fastest time. (The Cali T has 44th fastest time.) The 458 has the 26th fastest The F12 has the 21st fastest.

I think Ferrari chose not to publish the NA Cali time in 2009 because they were worried that an unflattering time would be bad for sales.

 

Keep in mind the chronology. The 360 was introduced in 1999.

In 2009 production began on the 458. Huge improvement in performance and Fiorano lap times.

 

I'm sorry but your claims make no sense. FAKE NEWS!!!

Here's why...

The Cali time (1:19.58) was recorded in May 2009. But all the same, it beat the Ford GT Mk I (recorded December 2006), Lambo Murcielago (recorded December 2006), Porsche 997 Turbo (recorded December 2006), 360 CS (recorded October 2008). Not too shabby company!

The 458 time was recorded in August 2010
The F12 time was recorded in April 2013
The CaliT time was recorded in April 2015​

So the times for 458, F12 and CaliT did not exist when the Cali time was recorded. The rankings would have been completely different when the Cali time was recorded in 2009. Therefore it's nonsense to use the 458, F12 and CaliT times and rankings as reasons why the Cali time was an embarrassment.

For comparison at the time when the Cali Vairano time was recorded, the Z06 time (recorded May 2008) was 1:19.52, just 0.06 sec faster. Viper SRT-10 time recorded December 2006 was 1:19.51, just 0.07 sec faster. These were serious muscle cars. Why would the Cali time be an embarrassment?

For more realistic existing Fcar comparison, a 490PS F430 Spider (recorded May 2008) 1:18.46 (1.12 secs faster). A 660PS Enzo (recorded December 2006) 1:17.45 (2.13 secs faster). The F430 Spider would have been the closest Fcar to gauge the Cali against. If anything, a 1.12 sec difference after 78 secs of racing would seem reasonable performance separation to avoid an embarrassment for the F430 Spider, not the Cali. The Cali is supposed to be the "slowest Fcar" on offer at the time.

Finally, do you know what the Vairano Handling Track looks like? Let me show you...

Image Unavailable, Please Login ​

It essentially consists of 2 very long high speed sections, connected by fairly fast corners. It is designed to attain and sustain top speeds, meaning cars with high HP engines can easily show off their advantages.

It's also curious that the 460PSCali beat the Murcielago because at the time, the Murcielago engines range from 580PS to 640PS in power.

FAKE NEWS!!!

I hope you see how silly this discussion is. Had enough fun? Can we stop hijacking this thread now?

 

Metamorphosis GT to convertible. Looks pretty either way….. Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I made a video... Just too large for the upload.

 

It's going to be necessary that there's no car parked behind...

 

If it's like the Cali , the sensors should be able to detect that.