I enjoy the conversation, but I cannot make sense out of a number of positions. Definitely do not strike the comment, but note context that in this category with fighters at this very high level KO's sure haven't been common lately. Take Floyd vs anyone in the last number of years, Canelo's last fight, GGG's fight pre-Canelo (although Jacobs did go down once). Can anyone in recent memory think of any fighter breaking faces (K. Brook, who needed reconstructive surgery)? It's a scary thought to jump in a ring with an individual known to cause legitimate trauma to very good fighters. I would like to see Canelo fight Lemeaux. The only reason GGG knocked him out was due to GGG's ring ownership which clearly cut off Lemeaux's power. Canelo does not have ring generalship nor the ability to cut off the ring so I am certain Lemeaux would be able to land proper punches, which he simply couldn't do vs GGG.
Floyd's actual last KO, not counting that sucker punch against an idiot Victor Ortiz, was against Justin Juuko in 1999. He's not much of a KO artist. TKO, yes, he's had quite a few.
That's okay, I'm perfectly good with that One doesn't have to always 'follow the crowd', and a contrarian view can be just as legitimate as the popular consensus. We all agree he won the fight, but, it wasn't a dominating performance, and, GGG continues to perpetuate his reputation as an overrated boxer. Until he has a series of fights where something dramatic occurs to consistently reverse that stigma, my position remains the same.
Where something dramatic occurs? I guess shattering someone'S skull isn't dramatic. By your logic, you're waiting for him to pull a Drago-Creed situation.
I'm all about not following the crowd, I certainly get that. Hey I just noticed we joined Fchat the same time 11 years ago. Time flies. Do you not believe this is yet another fly in the ointment that is Floyd's career? GGG's supremacy of Floyd was further articulated. We know Floyd beat Canelo, but that was undoubtedly a different young and green Canelo. There was no 'stunned' Canelo in their fight all night, just a few pops here and there. GGG properly stunned, multiple times, a far superior and learned Canelo, and controlled him all night whereas Floyd by comparison took advantage of a good albeit inexperienced kid who should have been properly creamed and commanded. Floyd is seriously deflated due to this which was undoubtedly why he instructed Canelo in 2016 not to take the GGG fight. Floyd knew Floyd had to be out of the game before that fight happened, or the jig was even more up then it already was. The formal boxing community already saw Floyd as well-deflated for a massive amount of time, but it was his huge third-world-country economy-like following that perpetuated him. This recent event however, has really called Floyd out which I have no doubt he knew was coming. If I had to think of someone similar to Floyd in that regard, I might say the skater Tony Hawk. Great skater in the 80s-90s, but definitely not the best, just the best marketed with a Horde-like following. Canelo is very much going to same way hence De La Hoya's judge involvement and draconic terms under which he will allow Canelo to lose/fight, or whatever it's called. I am convinced De La Hoya doesn't see it as boxing, but rather as selling PPV to the Canelo constituency, and growing that constituency. I just heard unofficially today that talks of GGG Canelo rematch are already DOA as De La Hoya is insisting on 100% of their terms being met again, which won't happen with how GGG was treated recently. Don't anyone hold your breath for that rematch to happen, ever. Canelo will wait for GGG to retire, take the belts, then attempt to hold the mantle as the greatest alive or some such nonsense.
My thoughts exactly. Heck even Haggler/Hearn, Hearns didn't suffer a shattered skull or broke ribs. GGG broke 2 of Macklin's ribs with his left hand. Who does that?
K. Brook = 147. Nuff Said. I'm done with this subject. Let's move on. It's getting repetitious. We agree not to agree. I think it's fair. (even though we actually all agree that GGG won vs Canelo).
BTW, as an aside, don't let anyone delude you into believing that broken bones are in any way uncommon in boxing, the claim that a boxer who has broken a few bones is somehow unbelievably scary only underscores my point that GGG is a hyped-up boxer. This is why it's good to have a boxing fraternity who have decades of experience in the ring as Champions to refer to. As I am told it, broken hands, ribs, jaws, noses, eye sockets, retinas and cheek bones are quite common in boxing, although, in times past these things were not publicized as much as they are nowadays, but the point is, every professional boxer has experienced them. Just from memory I recall Josesito Lopez breaking Victor Ortiz's jaw with a left hook, countless other boxers have with facial fractures not just Kell Brook. Let's not forget Ricky Hatton broke Luis Castillo's ribs, Roy Jones Jr broke Virgill Hill's ribs with a body shot that sounded like a gun being fired with an audible 'pop' from ringside, I think Sergei Kovalev broke Cedric Agnews ribs, I know Mike Tyson broke Razor Ruddock's ribs in fight 2, Nigel Benn broke Chris Eubank's rib in fight 1, Franz Botha broke Shannon Brigg's ribs, Gerry Cooney did the same to Ron Lyle, and on & on with many more instances that I have not covered or are simply not revealed, the point being, a fighter breaking bones is not uncommon.
Ehhh, I disagree. Even back in the 20-30s if a fighter was that dangerous it was publicized, such as Dempsey is was a known thing. I grew up in Las Vegas and remember hearing about Mike Tyson as a legitimate danger to another fighter's health, but that was heavyweight Mike Tyson. Breaking bones to the point of reconstructive surgery is NOT something I've ever heard of, and I've been following boxing most of my life. Canelo has never hit that hard, Floyd sure hasn't, and even Lemieaux, who I consider a harder puncher than either, hasn't. Joe, you're sort of reminding me of the husband who comes home early and sees two people under the sheets naked in the middle of the day and they claim they didn't have relations and you believe them. You're Churchill signature quote is priceless considering the subject matter and KO % of the individual in question. It is my HO that the hippest boxing hang on the net is at boxingscene. The ruffians there don't pull any punches with what's what on the scene. Even there, it is a statistical fact that 90% of professional boxers and pundits see GGG as the real deal. Not seeing it is just denying the obvious or that 90% of professionals out there are idiots, which is a pretty bold statement
Ferraripilot, You just don't stop!!!! Shut Up aleady! He isn't calling anyone an idiot! It's an opinion!!!! I come to this thread to talk boxing, not to hear you whine cause somebody doesn't like your favorite fighter as much as you do. Move ON!
Fine, I'm not a huge Canelo fan. I actually thought he would get his A** kicked. I watched and read all about it now for 10 days. I'm not taking it personal like you guys are. It didn't change my life. Pap is smart. I know he is staying out of this with his popcorn in his hand and waiting for the storm to settle. Actually i'll do the same for now. I wanted to talk boxing and not listen to a couple of guys whine.
Or better yet, what a hype-job Floyd is. Some people here seem to believe he's legitimate. Groan. Moving on. Who else is worth watching these days? No one else exciting out there sans middleweights these days. Seems to be the go-to category for lbs for lbs talent.
Quit whining Rungvisai just de-throwned Chocolatito, should be interesting to follow him. Mikey Garcia just schooled and embarrassed Adrian Broner. There's still some exciting boxers out there.
I think you are confused, nobody is saying GGG is not the real deal, just overrated, there is a difference, I want you to spend a lot of time today thinking about that You can't make this stuff up! Actually Pap is busy in the studio recording an album and putting the finishing touches on the last 3 songs, "Misery Loves Company", "You Can't Save Some People From Themselves", and one more, I think it's called "Who Am I?"
This coming from an individual who cites Floyd's last encounter as icing on an illustrious career, yet does not address why he, a great fighter by all accounts in your postings, did not KO a very young green Canelo. This is a legitmate dichotomy to your position as you are, by your own inference, indeed stating Floyd is far more overhyped. I'll go with that for the books
You're grasping at straws trying to bring FM into this discussion, FM won all his fights handily, he wasn't overhyped or overrated like GGG, and has now retired, besides, the discussion is about GGG, and his greatness, or lack thereof Back to GGG. Your assertion that GGG is special because he fractured someones face is a direct example of the hyping that GGG is unable to live up to, so folks like you are in fact responsible for GGG's woes. Any group of professional boxers will tell you, facial fractures requiring reconstructive surgery in boxing are very common, if you haven't heard about this before, you simply need to do more research. In the absence of having any group of professional boxers to share the facts with you, read the book "Medical Aspects of Boxing" by Barry Jordan, it'll put things in perspective, and you'll learn that when the bones finally go 'pop' it's not necessarily as a result of whats happened in the ring that night, it may be an accumulation of trauma upon those bones for years. Anyway, the bottom line is, orbital fractures (and subsequent reconstructive surgery such as that endured by Kell Brook) are quite common in boxing, just because you have not heard of this only speaks to your knowledge - or lack thereof Some boxers are known to have a skull that is susceptible to fractures, and to the extent that they are able to be successfully defensive, they pay the price. This phenomena is clearly the case for Brook, and, the fact that GGG broke Brook's right orbital none is nothing special, unless you think that Errol Spence Jr who then proceeded to break Brook's left orbital bone is just as fearsome or great as GGG , do we get 2 for the price of 1 and now Errol Spence Jr is also the next hyped-up overrated boxer because he too fractured Brook's face? I guess they have something in common, right? I'll let you in on some inside information, fractures amongst boxers are closely-guarded secrets as much as possible due to the impact they can have on both career & reputation, and some notable boxers have had facial fractures which have escaped the attention of the media (as planned or hoped), including some names being discussed here favored by you - think about that Did not a boxer named Manny Pacquiao fracture the facial orbital bone of Antonio Margarito, the latter requiring facial reconstructive surgery, titanium plates, screws & wires? Did that make Pac the most feared person in the ring? C'mon, give up the BS, just because a guy can inflict a facial fracture does not define boxing greatness and proffering this up as same shows how little you really know about the sport besides what you read on the internet. What about Clive Atwell's facial & internal reconstructive surgery? I bet you have hardly heard of the person who caused it... How many times did George Chuvalo have facial reconstructive surgery? The bottom line is, if GGG was as great as some of you folks made him out to be, he would have dominated the fight so obviously that the scoring would have been unanimous even with a biased judge, or he would have knocked Canelo out. I'll always agree, GGG is good, just not as great as his fanboys pretend he is.
Sorry, I got called to dinner, back again to finish off my thoughts So, in summation, as is obvious, the fact that GGG has broken a facial bone and a rib or two doesn't count for much as has been amply demonstrated, and, more importantly, none of it negates the fact that he is kind of a disappointment relative to the lofty accolades that some bestow upon him. A great Champion who belongs in the Pantheon of the all-time greats? Not -so-much.
