Warning about two 430 Scuderias on the market

wow, thanks for sharing they are like being sold by big dealers and how would they have missed that??....

you also mentioned that you saw a third scud with problems which one is that ....

 

My take is guys know that an accident filed with the insurance companies will soil the CarFax. The car gets fixed out of pocket. My car had extensive paint work. Absolutely perfect work. CarFax shows no accidents. So who knows.(?)

 

Great share!


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Only way to know definitively would be to have the car properly inspected by a body shop. They will turn it up for certain. But most buyers will not go to the trouble.

 

wow the red one lived in PR for most of its life, probably why nothing is on the carfax

 

I had a car like number 1 way back (bad Autocheck and good Carfax) and got it inspected by multiple shops pre-purchase. All of them stated there were zero frame damage.

Autocheck is not 100% accurate as well and prone to clerical error same as Carfax. Best bet is to get it inspected and then request an amendment correction to correct the history if there's indeed no frame damage found.

Clerical errors can mess-up any car history really good but can be corrected by request with supporting inspection documents.

 

In the past, I've paid an owner of a body shop to visit a Ferrari dealer where I was considering buying a used car. Not only did I want a PPI for the mechanical end, but wanted to know if the car was in an accident or painted... something a trained eye can spot. Once you've bought a car that you later find out had undisclosed bodywork, you don't make that mistake again.

Also, OP... thanks for actually posting VIN numbers for these cars. All too often people post warnings about cars with out being willing to list VINs or dealer names etc.

 

Ive been wondering why that red scud has not been sold. They actually emailed me this year after a year telling me they lowered the selling price.

 

For me it's kind of paint forensics.
I am a professional and have owned a Restoration Custom Car shop for over 26 years. I could tell the paint (not only from the digital paint gage) but from tell tail signs that the car has had a lot of paint work. But as a professional I could see it was extremely well done. Not a hint of over spray. No clear or color on any of the rubber seals. No color differentiation anywhere. But there is a faint clear coat blend line in the roof. Most would never even see it. Also there are some marks on the rear quarter rubber around the window that indicate the quarter glass was removed and the rubber "picked" with a tool to pull the lip around the pinch seam. Again, most folks would never know. I have yet to find any serious body repair so like I said; who knows. Maybe an accident fixed out of pocket. Maybe just vandalism. Maybe a "pulling in the garage" incident. Maybe worse and fixed out of pocket.

But you are correct. When folks are serious that I have built cars for, they will call on me to "CSI" if you will, the paint and body of the car. And most should do this considering the ways these cars may be repaired in order to keep the CarFax clean.

 

I too seriously considered the red one when the price was >215k over the summer.

Here’s a thread on it.

Value of '08 Scud w/ No CF Diffuser and No Clutch Wear Info
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=9080&share_tid=558928&share_pid=145538186&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eferrarichat%2Ecom%2Fforum%2Findex%2Ephp%3Fposts%2F145538186%2F&share_type=t


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Most independent and large dealers use CarFax. Almost every auction house "Adesa / Manheim" and smaller independents use AutoCheck. The inspectors or CR people at these auctions are underpaid and untrained for inspections and condition reports. Manheim will also announce "Frame Damage" on vehicles with 1/8" pilot hole on the inside of a door jam or plastic cover for PDR work. Just because AutoCheck says "Previous Frame" does not 100% indicate this is the case. An independent inspection by a trained individual should be completed. And unfortunately once a car is tarnished at the auction, it is almost impossible to get this fixed. Believe it or not, a lot of Ferrari's come with crappy and inconsistent paint work, which an untrained individual at the auction puts in notes from previous repair. They will also punch in previous frame by just "THINKING" a vehicle was fixed or painted when it in fact has never even seen an accident.

 

I agree with this.

The Porsche I purchased a while back has this "Frame damage" in Autocheck; however, there was zero frame damage found by several shops and even my local Porsche dealership. I have a very good relationship with this dealership that services my other Porsches and even done new crate engine swaps for me in the past.

The car was not the original color and the consensus was that this low paid auction inspector ASSUMED that it's been in an accident since it was repainted with a different color. Very bad practice.

 

I invested in a paint meter. Couple hundred bucks and the paint meter doesn’t lie. The thickness of Ferrari paint is very consistent throughout the car. It’s a dead giveaway when you run the meter and a panel has irregularities. It also works over clear bra.


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However,
The paint meter cannot be accurate because most of exotic cars have a clear film installed especially at the front clip where usually the damage would be.

 

Sorry to sound dim. If a panel is damaged, repaired/replaced and repainted by a good shop from bare metal, could the paint thickness not be the same as the rest of the car? In which case, how would you know - just a colour differential between new and adjoining panels?
How much digging do you need to do to check for frame damage on cars like a 430? Older cars you could see the rails under a ramp.

 

to my understanding paint thickness on the 360s (perhaps even the 430s) can vary. Not greatly but more than a couple of mils. is possible since the panels are painted off of the car at the factory.

 

i did wanted to fly there to look but i am just worry about buying a lemon and then in a few years selling it after. i am afraid it will be hard to sell. i even looked at the history of the lemon, just worried they are hiding something about the steering and suspension that they seems to have problem fixing causing the wheels to be changed so often

 

I was also looking at the black one and really appreciate this post.

 

Great job posting this info, cozmo! I learned a lot. Thanks

 

Cozmo, did you bring these issues to the dealer's attention? What was their reaction and your experience with them?

 

of course surprised, how could they have known??!!!
just another example of why sleazy business people of all types are called 'used car salesmen'.