Will Lewis' career have an asterisk?

He had padded his stats thanks to these crazily dominant Mercs. Who knows, he might end up passing Schumacher's stats. If he keeps driving dominant cars every year it's bound to happen. No one has had a car like this for 4 straight years. It's just nuts. Now with a true #2 in Bottas and no one to challenge him within the team it will only help him pad the stats even further.

One stat where MSC will never been touched is fastest laps. Others might get wins or even championships but not that one.

 

It has seemed in the past that even Mercedes we're getting tired of his antics. Mercedes and F1 will put up with him and his nonsense only if they can somehow believe that he is helping boost F1 numbers especially in USA.

 

I think that it depends on your personal opinion whether you have an "asterisk" behind his stats...Some say it is all legit, some say it is even more than that and again others will deny...Same applies for Schumacher! Look in recent times how many of the Lewis supporters have put an asterisk behind Schumachers stats as long as Lewis did not get them...same might happen to Lewis in the future, with Max maybe even sooner than later

 

I all depends on the Merc, if it keeps the domination (i think it won't) then Elron will keep winning, but we all know sooner or later, they all stop winning, and we all know that elton is sub pair in an average car.

 

The more threads, post, and mentions of Lewis's name on Fchat actually makes him the most talked about person in the Ferrari-chat F1 section. Thus another stat. LOL

If a rival team driver is getting this much attention, he is doing his job. LOL Trump proved its not about good press or bad press, its about always being in the press that makes one larger than life in today's social media world.

 

Half the threads on here would be empty, if not for Hamilton liking and loathing.

I was about to post something similar to that effect.

 

Lewis is nothing. Just a handful of bad races, and he will be throwing the team under the bus. He could not even beat Jense and Nico.

 

Depends on next year. If he is still in an utterly dominant car, Schumacher is in sight.

If Red Bull makes a car able to challenge Mercedes Verstappen and Ric will spoil his party. Ferrari will be up there, as will Mclaren with their Renault engine.

Schumacher had great cars in 2002 and 2004, but apart from those he had to battle for his titles. Some people say Schumacher's asterisk was that he apparently had a dedicated #2 written in his contract...but my question is, did he even need one? Apart from the very rare time that Schumacher had such an off day, and his teammate being truly on form...only then was he ever beaten. Normally he'd be so far ahead it of his teammate it's like he was driving a different car. The rare time Barrichello or others had to move over, Schumacher was utterly embarrassed by it. If it was written in the contract or not, we probably won't know but it was also completely irrelevant. Barrichello & co where no slouches. even Massa was quick in his time (lets not forget until Ferrari mentally destroyed him after his accident, he was able to give Alonso a hard time at times even).

We've all seen Hamilton's fragile state over the years battling Alonso, Button, Rosberg...He was expected to beat Button and Rosberg with ease but always struggled immensely against them. To be a true ''all time great'' or even be mentioned in their company, he really shouldn't have struggled the way he did against them.

The Mercedes is the most dominant car of all time, and the FIA made it so that no one has been able to challenge them with ridiculous rules, they where utterly inept at sorting out emergency solutions to fix a rigged game. When you have a team that has an engine that has a 100hp advantage over the next one, and any team using their engine needs to have Mercedes people installed and they need to ask for permission to use faster power modes given to them (not even having all the same power modes), something is desperately wrong.

I don't blame Mercedes for having build the fastest car, great job to them but other teams weren't allowed to compete. Obviously I also see that Mercedes wasn't obligated to agree with other teams so that they could develop their engine properly, I fully blame the FIA for that idiocy. But to me championships won when there is no other team even near competing or allowed to catch up, don't hold much weight.

Red Bull winning their titles 2010-2013 where much more impressive to me. Engines where all close to each other in performance, Renault actually making the smallest power (not counting Cosworth here). It was a combination of building a great car and installing a great driver. Ferrari, Mclaren, Red Bull all had these ingredients. Mclaren even had a car designed with a trick that couldn't be implemented by other teams as effective (F duct). Red Bull won theirs on real merit, nothing was stopping other teams to also build a great car.

The same goes for Ferrari's titles in 2000-2004. Again nothing stopped others to make a great car. In fact Mclaren and Williams both build great cars in certain years, Ferrari had no magic ingredient (save for Michael Schumacher) that couldn't be copied.

Mercedes with their 2014+ cars employed such great power and others weren't allowed to have it. That's the asterisk.

 

I think that's the best summary ever.

No one in recent times has hopped into a top team on their F1 debut apart from Hamilton. Fact. He went straight from there into the current Mercedes and won almost immediately (after a couple of hiccoughs). I'd have a lot more respect for his achievements if he'd been in Schumacher's shoes during the first few years of Mercedes development instead of just jumping into the car that others had 'got right'. It was also clear straight away the he got the favouritism over Nico, which I still find unforgivable after all Nico's hard work with MS, but that's not Lewis' fault.

 

lol...it's not just us!!

66 comments
Sort:
by Oldest
1
11:28 amOctober 30, 2017Matt W
I think the thing that sets Lewis apart for me is his thirst for a genuine challenge and test of his skills. Schumacher will be remembered for his absolute dedication to the minor details in pursuit of perfection, Prost as the professor and Senna as a poetic hero. Hamilton I feel will have the legacy of a gladiator. He is definitely up there with the greats now, he feels like he has hit that rare pinnacle that the greats managed during their prime. It has been a joy to watch him over this summer period, it felt like watching a Senna or Schumacher at their peak. I can't say I am his greatest fan due to his off track activities which make me cringe a bit too much, but he is absolutely undoubtedly the best and most complete driver of the field.

It seems strange to be unable to match Vettel with those names. Despite his 4 titles, I don't think he will ever be remembered as well as even Alonso with half the number of championships. I think Sebs legacy will be slightly tarnished by spending so long at such a dominant RBR team. He also seems to be making too many mistakes wheel to wheel.

I'm genuinely excited to see 2018 and hopefully have Hamilton go against Vettel, Verstappen, Alonso and Danny Ric. The potential for wheel to wheel racing is mouth watering and I hope the teams involved all manage to field decent machinery next season.

2
2:47 pmOctober 30, 2017AT
Come on! VET is tarnished by having spent so long at such a dominant RBR team?! HAM title were virtualy handed to him by Merc. Except in 2016 when he came in last in a two car race...

 

But that was to be expected: as said numerous times before, although Nico was doing fine against Michael it was Schumacher who got all the attention and Nico was considered as his second driver. Now it was Schumacher that was replaced by Lewis instead of Nico...so when Michael quit Mercedes saw the need to approach a No.1 driver rather than giving Nico the trust to lead the team. Easiest to see when you compare their salary...
So why would Mercedes support anything other than their higher investment???
All this "we have no No.2 driver" was only alive as long as the car was either not able to win the title (2013) or as long as it was so dominant that even when they crashed from time to time they still got the WDC.
Imagine Nico would have been around this year with the Ferrari much closer than in recent years...Does really anybody believe that Toto would have looked how Nico and Lewis take away points from each other giving Ferrari the title as McLaren did in 2007??? Maybe Nico knew that and decided to leave...

 

Yes, you're right

 

Thank you.

Certainly can't blame him for getting a competitive car straight away, very lucky and almost unheard off. Villeneuve springs to mind of course.

Yep favouritism happened immediately. Malaysia 2013, Hamilton was in 3rd and Nico came up behind him and was miles faster, and he was told to ''hold station, do not overtake Lewis''. That kind of set the tone. People moan that Schumacher had #1 written in his contract but from that race onwards it ws pretty clear to me too that Hamilton clearly wanted it too, as Mclaren didn't give it to him.

Thanks also.

I think the Merc was actually the engine with the best drivability, it had a very wide powerband...the Renault used the least fuel and ran slightly cooler, the latter helped with the exhaust blown diffusers being more aggressive.

Regarding your last point...absolutely. IMO any driver would've won the titles 2014-2017 in the Merc. Even the average Bottas is right up there with Vettel still. It was Vettel that made the difference at Red Bull, he was able to deliver with the car at every opportunity (no dig at Webber who I like immensely, but fair's fair...Vettel is simply the better driver of the two). I think only in 2010 did he finish runner up after that he was 3rd or lower. Vettel's immaturity and hot-headedness cost him dearly pre-2011 (and 2009 definitely...I think he could've had a serious go at the title that season!), and funnily enough it did so again this year.

The same goes for the Schumacher years...Schumacher in the end made the difference when the car had competition. Yes anyone driving that 2002 and 2004 Ferrari would've won it...but those other years? Schumacher made the difference between glory or not. ]

You mention Schu in Monaco in the 90s...that race in '94 I believe in the benetton, that was special...I can name 20 races easily when Schumacher was utterly brilliant and just demoralizing, awe inspiring better than anyone else without looking it up. I can name numerous races for Vettel for having done the same. Kimi, Alonso, Max...(I specifically name Alonso before the inevitable Hamilton fan comes along and accuses me of remembering great races only by drivers I like). But Hamilton? I'm sorry but I truly struggle to name a race other than Silverstone 2008 when he was utterly fantastic.

 

Say what you want but Hamilton is still ONE HELL OF A DRIVER. Could someone else beat him in the sister car? Sure. But he's one hell of a driver non the less. He's creaming Bottas this year.

No asterisk. He's good and he's made the right career choices. And he came from nowhere (unlike so many former driver's sons or rich dads) so if there's an asterisk, it's that he came from the common folk instead of the elites.

 

The age old story that he came from nowhere...He got picked up very early at his karting career, right before it starts costing serious amount of money.

It's obvious he's a talent, it'd be stupid to say otherwise...but no he is not a GOAT which so many of his fanboys keep claiming.

 

What on earth could I ever add guys. Some fantastic posts, and before the elton fans come in, not a single dig or bit of nastiness, just pure facts here

 

The only multi-WDC's to struggle with teammates were Senna/Prost (understandably so), Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton. MSC had a designated #2, Hakkinen was just that much better than Coulthard, and the same with Alonso (save the season with Lewis).

With Button, I think youth and emotion lost out that season to maturity and steadiness.

With Rosberg, I think hubris ultimately led to his defeat last season. I still believe Nico is far from a back-marker, though I wouldn't classify him with the likes of Vettel, Verstappen, Ricciardo or Alonso. He was a very quick driver but had difficulty when racing in close contact.

Vettel had an imperfect car but was paired with a guy perfectly willing to make the most of a bad situation.

 

Funny summary of LH's career...probably a tongue-in-cheek statement.

 

Pretty darn good assessment it you ask me. We've all seen elton telling us that the stewards a racist if they penalise him, and posting his telemetry data on twitter and the like when jenson beat him. If the Mercedes isn't dominant next year, I wouldn't put money on him throwing his team under the bus within a couple races once he starts getting beaten and has no response - which will happen at some point, Mercedes will be caught by someone. Imagine if he has max in a red bull capable of fighting next to him, he'll **** his pants every weekend

 

If Lewis drove for Ferrari my guess is he would get the exact opposite treatment on Fchat.

Yes, he beat Ferrari cars and drivers for many years. But that's his job and he did it well.

Good for him. Ferrari should have been better. That's not Hamilton's fault. It's Ferrari's (as well as McLaren's and RB's fault)

 

The asterisk should say “Won by Mercedes even with Hamilton as team leader”

 

Mmmm... not quite. If he were slower than Bottas he would not be winning the championship. Bottas or Vettel would.

Bottas was in the same car all season and pretty much was trounced by Hamilton all season. Did Merc juice Hami's car? Maybe. But still he beat Bottas who was more in line with fighting with Vettel and Kimi all season.

 

Not really. Some would come round but not all. Still plenty of anti-Vettel people here. Many anti Alonso when he was here.