Yes, Bottas is underperforming but we’ll never know if he gets the same exact equipment from Mercedes after what they went through with Nico and Hamilton. Same as it happens with Red Bull with Max getting the improved engine. We and Ricci only got to know because Renault let it slip. At Mercedes nobody would have said it. On the other hand I believe the reason Mercedes weren’t performing on some tracks this year is because of the lack of Nico’s technical set up abilities so having a clear number one could still backfire somehow.
I rest well knowing Ferrari will never give Lewis a seat. Ferrari does not want that kind of attention nor to be so flippantly and regularly thrown under the bus should things go awry.
I know both drivers share some data, but you can bet the farm Lewis has more technical resources back home sorting his rig as a priority.
I think the item in question is the statement “Lewis is nothing”. No matter how you slice it, 62 wins, career record poles and 4 WDC’s don’t qualify as “nothing”. He drove against a teammate in the same car for all his wins, and his total WDC’s equal the total WDC’s combined of his teammates. He has had a very good career and his accomplishments support that fact.
How about 'nothing extra over others in the current lineup'? Still quite a record, though. He could just as easily have screwed it up and ended up nowhere. He's still an awful person at times, though.
That’s conjecture...certainly there are other equally capable drivers on the grid (Max, Seb, Alonso, possibly Ricci) but I don’t think it diminishes Hamilton’s achievements. He can’t be nullified for making the right decisions to be in the right cars.
No asterisk and who would care if there was one. He is in the top 5 with Alonso, Vettel, Max and Ricciardo on the current grid. I beleive anyone of them would have had consistent success in the Mercedes over the past 4 years, but he took a flyer (not much of one when Ross Brawn was involved) and it has paid off. I would put him in the top 10 -15 of all time, but it is difficult to say where based upon most of his success being achieved over the last 4 years (not his fault). Those that rely solely on statisitics will rank him as an all time great, but statisitcs without context do not tell the entire story, or Jim Clark would be considered less of a driver than Nigel Mansell because he did not win as many races. There are plenty of great drivers from different eras, Lewis is one of them, but it would be hard for me to understand how he is the greatest. Hoping the FIA can come up with a formula that does not suck as much as the current one has, but we will see.
I think that sums it up very nicely. Just another awesome driver (aren't they all?) in an unusually awesome car.
An asterisk only for the people that don't like him. Most pole positions of all time (almost 50% more than Vettel during the same time) 2nd most wins of all time (almost 40% more than Vettel during the same time) Spent 80% of his time racing wold champions in the same car. Anyone else? What would the numbers look like if he had slow #2 teammates? Won titles with 3 major regulation changes. Anyone else accomplished that feat? Won with two different teams Won in every year he raced. Anyone else? Never required #1 status or help from his teammates to win Came within a sniff of winning at least 2 more championships including one as a rookie I'm sure I'm missing a whole bunch of other stuff like # of wins at certain tracks, podiums, fastest laps, etc. If he needs an asterisk then what do other champions need next to their name? You know what they say: An apple is an apple even if some say otherwise.
He can thank driving the most dominant cars in history for 80% of that. Also the regulation change thing is stupid, a great car is a great car. He had to beat Massa for one and then sat in a Mercedes where Wehrlein would be winning em for the other 3. So impressive.
His career won't have an asterisk. But he isn't in GOAT territory yet. Those are two very different observations. Whilst Ham is blindingly fast, he isn't the best strategist and does get flustered when things aren't going his way. He might have 4 wdcs, but beating the mighty Schu (aka the GOAT) on 7 wdcs is still a very very long shot. If the current grid, there isn't a single GOAT candidate amongst them with the exception of Max.
Seriously.. this is nothing but a troll thread. Hamilton deserves what he gets. Get over it. Are we going to put an asterisk to Schumacher years when Ferrari dominated? Didn't Ferrari win 15 of 16 races one year? Make Ferrari better than Mercedes. Simple.
Very well thought out and logical post, I agree the only GOAT candidate on the current grid is Max, several awesome drivers including Hamilton, Vettel, Alonso and Ricciardo, but not GOATs. MotoGP has one GOAT in Rossi and one GOAT in the making with Marquez. True GOATs do not come around every decade.
MS helped build that team and joined when it hadn't won for 20 odd years. Same with Benetton. Lewis just jumped straight into race winning or even championship winning cars. That's the difference, and it's a big one. Applies to Vettel and Alonso too. Will also apply to Max one day, I'm sure.
Jense's records against his teammates was actually pretty good. People poo on his championship, but lets be honest. Until then, he never had a really great ride.
Don't make me laugh. Go back and read what the experts were saying about Hamilton's move to Mercedes. "Flushed his career down the toilet. The arrogance of this guy...not even Schumacher could turn Mercedes around. I'm so glad Hamilton moved, he will struggle to win another race and he can forget about any titles." Does that sound familiar? What happened to Mclaren when he left in 2013? People say Hamilton won every year because he had a great car every year. They had the same great car, great driver in Jenson, great engine but there was something else missing that year....what could it be? Why no wins? Why did the few wins per year all of sudden transfer to the Mercedes? What could it be? I just can't put my finger on it.
2013 into 2014 was the introduction of the current V-6 T-Hybrid formula pushed by Mercedes who were 2yrs ahead into development of this current formula. And every year since, Mercedes have been a year ahead of development of this current formula i.e. in 2014 they already had the 2015 PU package ready increasing in hp every year. Then you add the token system which again favoured Mercedes due to being way ahead of the developement curve and ......yeah....recipe for total domination.
We are talking about 2013. Both Mercedes and Mclaren had the same 2.4 V8. By the way, Mclaren also had the same Mercedes V6 hybrid in 2014. Your argument falls flat even if you include 2014. Mclaren switched to Honda in 2015. What happened to the wins in 2013 and 2014 with the great Jenson at the wheel of a great car? Was it only a great car when Hamilton is there?
