Actually if you look at the spec's there is only 0.1 of a sec in it between gated and paddle. Not much really !
that extra 20 to 30 grand I would have had to pay for a three pedal car will buy a lot of brake light switches.
Hate F1 as much as you want, I do like the F1 a lot for the kind of driving I do. I've owned a lotus exige and Aston V8V both in manual before, and I still find the paddle very enjoyable and adds much to the experience. My friend's turbo s pdk by comparison, while lighting quick, is not visceral at all.
Still think I got that covered for the 20 to 30K I saved over the Gated "premium" Look, you want a 6 speed stick. Buy a 6 speed stick. But to continually see the price of these cars falling into a parallel universe to the F1s and think that the gated cars are somehow going to be worth so much more...someday... not there with ya. I really think my Ferrari experience is just as rewarding in a F1 car (IMO better really). Wasn't the F1 about 10K option? I drove a gated car before I bought my F1. Clunky, long throw, and a lot of work. Not like my 993 stick. If it was I would have a gated car in my garage. But felt more like I was driving an old 60's Pontiac Bonneville 4 speed. And yes, I have driven a 60's Pontiac Bonneville 4 speed-- and others. Romance is a wonderful thing. Falling in love with a three pedal car because I'm supposed to me more connected, supposed to be happier, and supposed to have made a better "investment" doesn't outweigh the reality of how it feels and shifts. If it felt like a shifter that was designed in this century, maybe I'd feel differently. The 360 is a wonderfully advance car in all respects. The shifter in a three pedal car, not so much.
I can tell you how it is in Germany. I have now had some experience with it, switching from a manual 360 to a F430 Spider F1. I had no requests for more than 4 months, not even dubious ones. No one was interested in a top 360 spider with manual transmission. The price was € 83,000 at the end and nobody wanted to buy it. The car was for sure the best online. There are other vehicles interested in 90.000 € and more. These are certainly not sold for these prices and stand there for a long time. These are all dream prices. The prices have generally diminished, if you compare it with the prices a year ago. In the end I gave my car in payment for a good price and he sold me the 430. I think the dream prices for a manuel 360 no one pays and there are too many cars for that.
Much of this discussion is premature. I think we need to wait another 5 years or more before we really see. Ultimately, there will be a premium for sticks I think given the lower numbers made and it being the last Ferrari that is somewhat readily available in a stick. As always though, condition and options will be super important as well: I dont think you will be able to necessarily look at a high mileage, no option stick and say "see they are only worth what an F1 is worth" because at some point the benefit / enhancement of the stick may become overshadowed by the other "issues" that the car has.
I've been on this site long enough to know three things: 1) Every F1 owner has problems with the system.. it's only a matter of time. Each and every one. At first it's flowers and elderberries... then there will be an issue. Not if but when. There is ALWAYS an F1 problem post on this board. (IMHO the bearing seals ALL leak with time. With the stick you can accommodate but the system doesn't raise pressure to compensate for the decreased motion based on fluid leak with increased wear.. again IMHO) 2) Complicated mechanical systems reliability decreases with age. Seals dry out, contacts corrode, etc. As we near the 20 year mark.. just watch. 3) What people SAY and what people DO, especially when it comes to their money are often two different things. You look at what people DO, not what they say.
The pre-owned Ferrari market is very soft overall right now, plus it's fall/winter season, so nobody is hot to buy at the moment. Have you looked at 308 prices? Back in the $45K range for an average car. The market will firm up at some point, and then sticks and F1's will diverge again. The Ferrari certified master mechanic who does the work on my cars told me straight up not to get an F1 360. Then he told a tale of woe about a failed actuator that cost about $12K to replace. Yikes.
Meanwhile, the original subject car remains unsold. It seems silly that 40k miles is "high" and although it's a virtually optionless example, I love that it is not red or have shields on the fenders. I think it would make a fun little hotrod.
I don't think the V8's need shields like the V12's do. I absolutely wanted shields on my 456M, but I didn't care with the 360, so mine doesn't have them, but it has the rare sunroof, which I will most certainly enjoy.
360 F1 and 430 F1 is an apples to oranges comparison. 430 F1 is updated and the car seemed to be built with the F1 system as priority. Not the case for the 360. No offense to the 360 F1 crew, just stating what I experienced personally and what I read in this community as well.
Not just pre-owned Ferraris. I'm a car dealer and I can say that even cars that I can sell like pancakes is not selling during the "Ber" months (e.g. Sept, Oct, etc), gets worse the closer we are to the holidays. Tacomas that I can sell a lot a month is not even selling right now. Car sales gets soft for every car around this time of the year.
Sunroofs are rare and pretty cool IMHO. Enjoy the sun on your head without the cost of maintaining and high repair bills that a convertible has.
No just the F1 system itself but outside components that the F1 system checks before it lets the car go in gear. Like brake pedal sensor, yup this will cause it not go in gear and leave you stuck.
Yes, the convertible roof mechanism seems to be a source of problems, plus, I just never have liked full convertibles. Don't like the wind buffeting, and I feel too vulnerable and uncomfortable in them. I like sunroofs and targa tops, though, which is why my 308 is a GTS and my 360 has the sunroof. There were just 22 sunroof 360's imported into the US and, "about half" were sticks, according the the only source I have on that info.
How about the brake pedal sensors? If they break you get stuck too. There are too many failure points. Imagine how many hours you'll have to spend waiting for a tow truck and going to a shop to get it fixed. Not cool. Not sure how much time is valued on your end but I could've made a lot of $ already with all that time wasted or spent that time with my family. Everyone to it's own though. F1s are great to drive but too much potential for drama.
Yup they are VERY rare. One day when the 360 gets more mature and more convertibles dish out tons of $$$ just for upkeep then the 360 sunroofs will have the appreciation it really deserve IMHO.
"potential for drama" Drama that is widely hyped by the guys who spent the extra 20 to 30 grand to buy what they would have you believe is a maintenance free car.
It's not a hype, mine was F1. It's fun to drive don't get me wrong, but to be stuck (F1 woulnd't go in gear) in the middle of the road and in the middle of the night in a very remote area is not cool. Makes me wish I have my rifle with me at that time. Then finding out it's just the brake sensor (in the pedal arm) that is broken is absurd. . Like what Curt mentioned, it's not a matter of IF but When it's going to happen. Would I consider F1 again? Yes, but for very short drives only.
