Will Lewis' career have an asterisk?

Huh?????

If you remember, EVERYONE thought at the time Hamilton's jump to Mercedes from McLaren was stupid. McLaren was the powerhouse and Mercedes nothing more than a rebranded Brawn.

I'm not saying Hamilton did the same job as Michael but he did jump to a team no one believed would be very successful at the time.

 

Surely you're not implying that it was Lewis that made McLaren and Mercedes great, are you?

 

and when he jumped into that team, along with the new rules, what happened? Instant winning by him and Nico. He didn't do ANYTHING to develop that team.

 

Wait a minute, He didn't immediately start winning in the Mercedes. He did win a couple races that year though. His first year at Mercedes was still in the V8 cars. Remember he won at Hungary in the V8 Mercedes. Thats really the only one I can think of.

 

Nope. I'm just bringing up the point that you can't have it both ways. When anyone mentions that Hamilton is the only driver with a win in every season the reply is that he always had a great car. My question is: what happened to that great car in 2013?
Was the car great only from 2007-2012 but then in 2013 it turned to crap?
People also seem to forget that when Hamilton joined Mercedes it was considered a terrible decision. I even remember experts saying he was greedy and only interested in the money since he won't be doing any winning with the Mercedes.
It seems like all of that was forgotten and people try to convince you that he always had a winning car and never helped to build a winning team, which is just not true.

 

His input in the setup of his car does matter. If he jumped into Vettel's car I can bet he won't be as fast as Vettel, or Max for that matter. Working with the team in the off season can make a dog of a car turn into a decent car. Especially if you have brilliant people around you.

 

Oh I can add to this. They had an okay car the prior year. The year (2013) Lew left was the year that they scrapped the old car and started new. The car was a dog and it's why Ron Dennis came back into the sport.

 

Or as we see in the following an asterisk by the group44 constructing subjectiv "facts"

I have no idea why you think that comparing those to Seb makes them worth more as I do not remember anyone putting Seb in the GOAT league...But for some reason Lewis fans think they elevate Lewis when they talk down Seb...strange

Now the fantasy sets in:

Lewis won 4 WDC: two against Kovalainen and Bottas (no WDC) and two against Nico...Now Nico is particularily interesting as he is used in this "stat" as a proof of Lewis greatness although Nico actually won his WDC by winning over Lewis. As said in the past, with this logic Sebs (you made the comparison) stats would be more impressive if he would have given Webber a WDC instead of winning all 4 against him...Makes no sense at all, just as a proof your argument does not make sense...

How is this the achievement of the driver unless he has built the car himself??? As someone said, the best car in the field is still the best car in the field

That makes even less sense...you say winning in the Mecedes during the hybrid era is more of an achievement than winning in the McLaren-Honda of this era because this would have been the same team??? That makes absolutely ZERO sense...

Just a proof that he never sat in a bad car...What you "stat" does not say is that apart from Kovallainen in 2009 EVERY single of his team mates won a race in the same car!!! So I do not see how this "stat" underlines Lewis greatness....

How do you know that Lewis is not No.1 in the current team? How can you think Lewis was not the No.1 in the team against Kovalainen??? And pointing in the direction of Schumacher f.e.: when did Schumacher win a Championship only because he was helped by his team mate...Just because he had a No.2 does not necessarily mean he needed one. Or Seb: how was his first WDC due to No.1 status?

None of the multiple WDC won all the chmpionships he compeated...Schumacher, Senna, Prost and even Alonso came within the "sniff" of winning even more championships. This is just a nice spin-around of telling Lewis lost two championships despite being in a car able to win....

So you see: apart from the first two everything following is pure fantasy and construction of group44 trying to elevate him. The first two are not in question but why do the Lewis-supporters think they must come around with all this other nonense to put in an asterisk themselves just as this stats were even more special than everyone elses???

 

By the time he won in the Mercedes in 2013 his team mate already won two races the same season...so implying the Mercedes just became "great" in 2013 because of him is a little but off....

 

We are seriously debating that it wasn't possible for Schumacher to heavily influence the '14+ cars? These are the kind of people we're arguing with, they can not believe something long term was on the cars. THAT'S how they roped Hamilton into the team in the first place! They explicitly said ''we will not be competing for titles 2013, but we have something great in the works we believe no one else has for 2014 onwards''.

 

Schu did unlimited testing and worked tirelessly together with Brawn and the entire Ferrari team to turn the Ferrari car and team into winners. He was also the fastest driver of his generation and one of the best strategic thinkers. Ham has never had to do any of those things. In fact he specifically left for Merc because they assured him he would have to do less work than at mclaren!

None of the current generation of drivers, with the exception of Alonso, knows what it means to have to work hard to win. They just turn up, get in, and drive. Their influence on car set up and development is a tiny fraction of what it used to be.

 

Is this thread supposed to be a joke? If it isn't, it sure is coming across as one.

An asterisk? That's just ridiculous. You can look back at most WDCs won over the years, and apply similar analytics, and propose an asterisk.

Here's the simple truth. Lewis is very much in the same caliber as Senna, Prost, Schuey, and so on. There is no question about it. Anyone who has won 4 WDCs has to be.

Get over it. Lewis is a phenomenal driver, perhaps the very best in the field. Whether you like him or not, if you cannot see that, then you have no business discussing F1.

 

This is correct, Toto Wolff has often defended Lewis skipping testing sessions by telling the media that it is not important, Lewis just jumps in the car and goes fast, that he really cannot provide much feedback that helps the team. That is why Nico did most of the testing when they were teammates.

 

So does this put a good light on Lewis for being fast without testing or does it put a bad light on him for not being able to improve a car when needed?
I guess this depends on whether you like him or not...I guess Toto hopes that it does not backfire on them as in the last years this "being extra fast" was not required but maybe the developing ability might be needed in future when competition gets closer....

 

Vettels mentality (Schumi's, Senna's, etc): how can I make my car better. All put in the time i.e. come early stay late, practice when avaliable, give feedback to engineers and mechanics.

Lewis mentality: "Guys, let me know when the car is ready." "Hello all, just saying hello on my social media page blah blah blah."

 

FTFY ;-)

 

I wonder why you read his media pages then, seems bizarre to me.

 

I don't Steve, I have several twitter windows open on my computer, all F1 related, and sometimes his tweets pop up now and then; more so than current and former F1 drivers.

On a another note that fellow FChatter Furoni brought up, Nigel Mansell feels Lewis should be Knighted for his achievements?

 

Alonso could have been. Shame he was so terrible at picking teams.

 

Wait wait...you seriously think Hamilton built Merc into a winner? LOL. The whole team had been prepping for those engine rules for years, showed up with an absolutely dominant powerplant, and the rest is history. Had absolutely nothing to do with Hamilton. Just a terrible take by you...

 

Fair enough.
Knighted, well he has of now surpassed Sir Jackie Stewart as Britain’s most successful racing driver. so I suppose he is in line for it, albeit much to the annoyance of a lot of folk no doubt

 

I honestly would not be annoyed by it.

The Queen is holding some ceremony soon ( I forgot what it is) and it looks like he could be invited from what the article says.

So that would make 2 "Eltons" that have been knighted IF she knights him.

 

This sums it up.

 

I would say the same about someone who put Elton in the same page as Senna, Shumacher or Prost.....and i would say the same if the name was Vettel instead of Elton.....none of them are in the same level as the others mentioned before, and if you can't see that, than you have no buisness discussing f.1.