Will Lewis' career have an asterisk?

Lewis could win 10 m ore titles, if it's in the same way he won the last ones, it won't make him any better in my eyes, and to many others, why? Because a set of rules was invented to suit a team, and that team gained a huge advantage over all others, and the most important part of that advantage was the engine, wich you simply cannot develop at the rate you would need to catch the othe5rs, So you put a driver in a vastly superior car, and deny the others the chance to catch up...so all you have to do is beat your team mate. So we know Elton is better than Bottas, congratulations.

 

So when a driver sits for 4 years in the absolute dominant car he can win 3 titles without being a titan, he just needs to be better than his team mate. And Lewis is obviously better than Bottas and he should have been slightly better than Nico or otherwise the discussion whether he is a GOAT would be ended anyway or does anybody really believe Rosberg is in the GOAT category...
But you can certainly show me where Senna and Prost (apart from against each other) or Schumacher lost a WDC against their team mate...

 

So before I am labelled hater again I want to point out the following: Lewis COULD be in the league of the GOAT (although I personally doubt it) but winning 10 titles in this Mercedes would be still no proof for that. There is no proof that Lewis is not a great driver but there is also none that he is...that is my whole point.
But the Lewis-supporters think that it is a proven fact and it is not, just as it is not with Vettel!

 

If anyone can win in them, then how come Bottas is running 3rd in the standings.
IIRC you are a Merc fan, so I find it funny you like to dismiss Hamilton as being something unworthy of consideration.

 

Because he is the #2 driver. Also Bottas is damn close to overtaking Vettel in the standings. How about we compare Bottas number of points to Kimi? Shows which is the better car.

 

So when someone is referring to the late '80s/early '90s, 1986 is the year you think of? The "early '90s" portion wouldn't have had you thinking later?

No, I am not wrong. I mentioned Senna in '88 and '91, and Prost in '89 and '93. In Senna's case, that would be 2 out of his 3 WDCs, and in Prost's case, 2 out of 4. Yet you completely ignore this.

There's a few reasons why Damon only won 1, and their names are Jacques Villeneuve, Alain Prost, and Nigel Mansell.

 

This was the 2016 team principals' end of season anonymous driver ratings, those who would know better than anyone here. 2017 will probably resemble this.

1 Lewis Hamilton, 234 points (No change)
2 Max Verstappen, 183 (Up two places)
3 Nico Rosberg, 176 (No change)
4 Daniel Ricciardo, 133 (Up five)
5 Sebastian Vettel, 90 (Down three)
6 Fernando Alonso, 67 (No change)
7 Kimi Raikkonen, 61 (Up three)
8 Sergio Perez, 52 (No change)
9 Valtteri Bottas, 26 (Down two)
10 Carlos Sainz Jr, 25 (New entry)

Who Voted

Toto Wolff, Mercedes
Christian Horner, Red Bull
Maurizio Arrivabene, Ferrari
Vijay Mallya, Force India
Claire Williams, Williams
Eric Boullier, McLaren
Franz Tost, Toro Rosso
Gunther Steiner, Haas
Fred Vasseur, Renault
Monisha Kaltenborn, Sauber
Dave Ryan, Manor

 

You are aware that there have been other seasons than this one, correct?

Just because he's a Merc fan doesn't mean he has to go on his knees for Elton

 

He said anyone could win in the Merc, clearly the gap between Kimi and his teammate show the driver makes a difference.
or is it that Kimi is a totally over paid crap driver.

 

I'am not asking anyone to go on there knees to fawn over Hamilton, but your incessant blinkered denial is hilarious, you need to get over it son.

And who is Elton

 

Ermm Vettel 5th. Alonso 6th

 

No, hilarious is the following: you guys are talking about Lewis being in the league of the GOAT and now we are down to Lewis beating Bottas as a proof for that???
There are 5 drivers at the moment who are widely considered as top of the game: Lewis, Seb, Fred, Max and Danni. Every single one of them could have become WDC in the Mercedes with Bottas as his sidekick....So out of these 5 Lewis is the lucky one who is able to drive the three-pointed star...Last year he was as well but nevertheless he did not win...So I do not see why one should praise him over the top...

 

Rather than tooling around looking for truth in questionable data and heresay fake facts, why don't we look at who the F1 community rates based on how much they are paid? Guess which drivers are at the top? If Ham was so average, why would anyone pay such huge sums to have him drive their car?

Let's face it, the major reason why there are a few (very vocal) Ham haters has nothing to do with his driving, and everything to do with his lifestyle.

 

Ermmm...both of them did not really have the car to shine did they. Or would you pick Alonso as the driver of the season because he was driving well over the three laps his McLaren lasted???

 

And my money would be on Lewis to beat the other 4 for a WDC if they are all driving a Benz, or just all in the same cars.......

 

So you think talent is the only parameter for the payment? It is often pointed out that Lewis is so great for the marketing of a company like Mercedes-Benz because of his lifestyle and his ability to attract new buyers. Seb being privat is obviously much less so but he is payed about the same money...Does that make him the better driver in your opinion?
Again: Lewis is not "average", he is among the bet 4-5 drivers of this era and those are the ones who are payed the most. The order of payment has also to do with the talent of negotiating, the willingness of the teams to spend that much money and at what time and under what circumstances the contract was done...

 

That is your OPINION and that is fine to me...but it is no fact at all.
And at the moment my money would be more on Max than on Lewis!

 

Who's the you guys, you are talking to me I have never said he is the GOAT, and what on earth are you on about bringing up Bottas, I said the drivers can matter, what is wrong with that, yet you have twisted that into me comparing Hamilton to Bottas, nice try Pete, but no cigar.

So now Lewis is just lucky driving the Merc, well IMO you make your own luck, it's the path he chose, I do not want you to praise Hamilton, but try to keep a lid on tarring me with the same brush as the others you are calling out, and if you are getting labeled as a hater, maybe that's because Thou doth protest too much.

 

Don't fool yourself. If there is any other reason other than talent to account for a driver's salary, it would account for 1%. It is insignificant.

 

Well, as far as I remember it was you bringing up Bottas as a proof that not everybody can win in the Mercedes. Yes, not everybody can win in it, most likely Stroll and Erickson will not succeed as many others but all of the top driver can. So you saying Bottas is an indicator for the Mercedes not being the best car in the field is plain wrong.
The opening discussion was that the Mercedes is much better than the Ferrari was and apart from a few tracks the Italian never had a realistic chance to beat the Mercedes when both are driven by a drive who knows what he is doing. So if you want to take Bottas as reference then you should compare him with the second driver at Ferrari and voila...you have the same distance in points as you have between Lewis and Seb. Just because Seb was able to collect a few more points than the second Mercedes driver does not make his car equal. So when you say the driver does make the difference it was YOU comparing Lewis and Bottas and yes, Lewis is the better driver...But does that make him great???

Oh again this country lore...Lewis was the only one (of the top driver) available and willing to leave his old team. It is not like Lewis went to Mercedes and said "please let me drive for you, I am convinced that you will be the team to beat in near future".

When I am labeled as a hater it is because people still do not get that I do not protest against anyone liking Lewis and callimg him his favorite driver but against those constructed arguments that are thrown into the ring telling us we are all stupid because we do not buy them although "they" think their opinions are facts.

 

If they had all the same manager maybe...and even then I doubt that markability is no factor.
If you have a guy like Lewis that can bring you ten million extra money on sold LH44 caps because of a wider fanbase your budget for this driver is at least 5 million higher. As far as I understood the last contract of David Beckham brought his team more money on merchandicing than the actual salary was. So they made money ever if he did not play a single second...

 

Ok so you agree not everyone can win in the Merc great, so yes that was my opening gambit regarding Bottas, so why are you expanding that to say I implied Merc was not the best car this year, you see that is where you twist words to suit your argument, and is not correct, so I can only assume it is to bolster your meaningless argument, which incidentally is totally not the topic of my original point, on which we agree.

I take that as just your speculation.

As I said in another thread try stepping in the shoes of the others you speak of, to gain a different perspective, you may see it differently.

 

If acting like a jerk makes you have an asterisk then yes.

Otherwise, no.

 

Here we go again. I've had this discussion with you so many ****ing times I'm sick of it. How many times have I said that I think Hamilton is top 5 of the field? You either suffer from severe amnesia or you're blatantly trolling me.

 

True, never said I didn’t think he was one of the best, but he’s truly a gifted insufferable simpleton. Joyless to watch him win although he’s deserved his accolades. He’s the Tiger Woods of Racing. Hope he starts a career in entertainment soon.