Will Lewis' career have an asterisk?

So your point is that you and me can not win in this Mercedes...OK, if this is your point then I agree. It is actually you twisting words when you behave now like it was anyone different than you that brought the comparison to Bottas on the table. The question always was whether Lewis stats are mainly down to the car (as this is the whole theme of this thread) and you deny that because you and me (or Bottas) were not able to win in it...

Which has more logic in it than a meaningless country lore...Especially you should know that not everything is purely in our own hands...

What will I see different? Look at you conversation above with Bas..you are not able to accept other poeple opinion when they differ, you say he has "incessant blinkered denial" if he does not agree.
So whenever one is not thinking that high of Hamilton as you do he is on denial??? I would say you try to step in "our shoes" and read you own post, I am curious what you would say...

 

Not sure if you noticed it but in 91, the williams was better than the Mclaren (although the later was also very competitive)

 

"There's a few reasons why Damon only won 1, and their names are Jacques Villeneuve, Alain Prost, and Nigel Mansell.[/QUOTE]


Can't see what jacques as got to do with it, when they were team mates, damon won....Nigel wasn't a problem either since he was driving Indycar at the time.

 

Hang on a minute, get your facts right, you yet again decided to butt in and answer a post I posed to Ferraripilot, so obviously you are blatantly trolling me.

However I agree with your opinion that Hamilton is certainly in the top 5, other than that I must have amnesia, because I can't recall I have read that of late.

 

Strewth where do I start...I'll tell you what I'll simplify it.
I'am not twisting anything, I just don't understand what your point is. maybe I have you wrong.

 

My point is easy: the Mercedes is the best car, period....Those trying to sell us that the Ferrari was the better car must be kidding.
So Lewis won again in the best car of the field, just as he did in 2014 and 2015...In 2008 his car was certainly not dominant like the Mercedes today but also not really inferior. So my point is that Lewis has not proven to the present day that he can win a championship in anything but the best car in the field. Same applies to Seb.
Senna, Schumacher, Prost and Fangio could....so despite the fact that Lewis has better stats than both Prost and Senna does not necessarily mean he is in the same league!!! IF (and I say IF) Seb would have won this year in the Ferrari against the Mercedes he would have been a step closer to them than Lewis is by beating the Ferrari.
And coming back to Bottas: comparing Lewis/Seb and Bottas/Kimi one can even see in the points that the Mercedes was the better car, even IF one does rate Lewis higher than Seb.
The day Lewis really proves that he can win in a lesser car will convince me of his abilities, until then he is "just the lucky guy that drives the dominant Mercedes".
If he will drive a dominant car until he retires he certainly has made the most out of his career but even if he has 7 WDC by then does not mean that he has convinced me. And I do not think it is "hate" of you remain sceptical...I NEVER said he is a bad driver or not on pair with Seb, Max, Fred or Ricci but I do not rate him higher by what I saw by now.

Clear enough???

 

It's a PUBLIC ****ING FORUM, you don't want anyone else to get involved private message someone.

 

Whoops seems I have touched a nerve.. that much is clear

 

Why are you swearing? it is because you have realised your glaring trolling mistake.

 

No...believe me, I am totally relaxed. But why do we have to repeat that every second day?
For a change: bring in arguments instead of your one-liners

 

You're baiting me (and obviously others) into calling you for what you are so you can satisfy yourself seeing us banned. You've ****ed off plenty of times in the past and every now and then you come back and bait others and get a few of us banned until you yourself are banned.

 

Incidentally I notice several people in the other Hamilton thread now have "Banned" designations...did something kick off?

 

Yea what’s going on with the ban hammers lately. Is Fchat really that soft?

 

yes

 

and

It has probably even more to do with the fact that he is not driving a Ferrari.... Remember when Vettel was driving for RB. General consensus here: He sucked. Now he re-appeared on this forum as a true contender.

Hamilton, Verstappen you name any of the 5 best( except Vettel of course) are almost personally blamed for everything that goes wrong with Ferrari. That's plain stupid.

Hell yes I'm a Ferrari fan, I own 4 of these lovely creatures but if Ferrari sucks in F1, so be it. I do not owe Ferrari any loyalty, driving around in 40year old Ferraris, they did not gave me any loyalty too... I still love my cars but I also still enjoy seeing the best drivers fighting in the fastest cars, don't care if its a Ferrari, RB or MB.

And for the discussion on value of a WDC.
Clearly being in the best car helps. But maintaining that position is also a result of driver feedback and performance. Schumi went to Ferrari and build the team and started winning. Ham went to MB before they were competitive. Same for Vettel. Max will be the next WDC and also started with a RB from the back

If we think that Hamilton is only good because of his car than exactly the same would apply to Schumi, and Vettel. I do not agree.In the end its a team effort and the driver is a major member of that team.

That leaves personal preferences. Fine, everybody is fully entitled to that but please why do we not stop "justifying" all our personal preferences and start enjoying racing. Starting enjoying fights, enjoying new talents taking there place. discussing tactics, discussing technology, discussing the girlfriend of all the driver for what it's worth but please stop these useless discussions on why is better. The simplest way to keep track of it is looking the WDC standing after every race.

I would suggest to the moderating team that ANY topic with even only the slightest aim to " who is best in..., which value on..., compare this driver with.., xxxx sucks are deleted on the spot and this part of the forum is only for truly interested in the sport.

 

Just went and checked my name!!!! Ouch

 

Good, life really is too short for arguing over F1 driver's, besides whatever the case, I find it's better not to confuse the issue's with facts...

 

No Bas, you have me totally wrong I can assure you, I have no problem with healthy banter, and I don't go out looking to get folk banned at all.
The F1 forum is always going to bring out disagreements, but it should be all in good fun IMO, after all it's only a sport.

 

What does that makes t different from typical ferrari threatment?

 

Well it does help to have a clear #2 driver agreed, still if that the case he is not alone with having that luxury, is he, but if it makes you happy to think that diminishes his achievements, fair enough.

IMO post #139 pretty much answers this thread.

 

It certainly helped in 08 against Felipe who had to fight Kimi during a big part of the year....

 

Pretty much my take as well. He is beating everyone and that's the bottom line. Some say anyone in his place would do the same...............wait that was last year wasn't it?

 

Whats with all this cheer. Please just get over yourself and get on with the bashing.........I cant take the civility LOL

 

Haha behave D.... everything seems to be going well, obviously I must have overlooked something...