Will Lewis' career have an asterisk?

I am so glad I do not have you on ignore, you really made my day...A good laugh after a long working day helps a lot...

How many years have we heard from Group44 that poor Lewis (sniff sniff) had to fight the titans and never had the luxery of a No.2 driver making his WDC and records worth so much more (see f.e. post #38). At the same time the No.1 status of Schumacher and Vettel is always used to devalue their WDCs (see f.e. post #139)..and now you come along asking sardonically whether Ferraripilot thinks that a No.1 status would "diminish" Lewis "achievements"...I really had to laugh for a while about that....But as you asured us you would never twist arguments and have double standards...lolololol...

And please do not say that I should not include "you" into "them" because you did not just "like" post 139, no you even come up with the following:

This post includes a comparison of Alonso with Vettel over the difference between them and Kimi including a valuation over Kimis age and a "suggestion" how Lewis would compare to that....I would like to quote yourself on this one:

I do not even talk about that drivel of Lewis driving the inferior car against Seb because I thought we left this point behind us a few posts ago but obviously you still believe in that...

So please do me a favour: I have a long working day tomorrow as well...can you please have another post of this calibre ready for me to enjoy in the evening? Thanks and good night...

 

Wow, so much wrong in this post I don't even know where to begin. Gotta love all these new usernames with few posts coming out of the woodwork and posting nonsense. Seems a little suspect. Just pathetic trolling, you even admit as much saying you'll check back in a few years to troll some more if LH can keep winning.

1.) LOL at "crap team mates" for Schumi. Barrichello was way better than Bottas or Kovalainen and Rosberg beat Hamilton. As for the car, Schumacher only had a dominant car 3 years in his entire 18 year career. 2001, 2002 and 2004. Hamilton has enjoyed much more dominant equipment over the course of his career and no, considering the fact that Schumacher regularly challenged and WON WDCs in cars over a second a lap slower than his competition (something Hamilton has never done), no other WDC at the time would have given him a serious challenge even if they were in the same car. He was that superior in his era. Hell, he beat Senna in the standings his first full year in F1. Hamilton's idol, Senna, feared him.

2.) No one in their right mind would say that this year's Ferrari is better than the Mercedes. The Ferrari was only better on certain tracks of which there are about 3 on the entire calendar (high DF, low speed). Even at Monaco the Mercedes (Bottas, LH was nowhere) was within 5 hundredths of Vettel's qualifying lap time. While the two cars were comparable in race pace, Merc's qualifying engine modes made it the far superior car in qualifying. The Merc usually always had track position on its opponents to start the race which in this era of high downforce, high aero wake cars is a monstrous advantage. Couple that with the fact that the Mercedes has by far the most powerful engine and it is hard to pass them. Mercedes also dominated many weekends including Canada, Britain, Monza where they utterly destroyed the competition and easily won races by 30+ seconds. Ferrari biggest winning margin of the season was 9 seconds in Australia. To top it off, Ferrari had much worse reliability than the Mercedes. Look at the point totals for Bottas and Kimi and that tells the tale. Stop drinking Toto's Kool Aid.

3.) Hamilton "beat" (tied on points) Alonso when he had the whole team actively behind him - working against FA. That proved to be stupid because in 2007 he choked away the title in amazing fashion and the next year he could barely take down Massa thanks to the Singapore fuel rig incident and Felipes motor blowing up at Hungary. Do you really think he would have beaten Schumacher in that 2008 Ferrari had he still been driving? MSC wiped the floor with Massa at age 37 in 2006.

4.) I already posted another video in the thread about (although he is great, now ancient) Murray Walker calling MSC the best ever. So unsure where he's coming from with this latest quote which is an absolutely ridiculous take. Getting old sucks.

5.) If you really think Hamilton is 3 tenths faster on "pure ability" than Vettel then that is just laughable and you have zero credibility. As for your rain comments, Vettel won the Italian GP in a Toro Rosso (Minardi), where was rain master Hamilton that day? Some 30 seconds back. Hell even Kovalainen made the podium. And unlike Hamilton, Vettel didn't just plop down in the best car on the grid to start his career.

6.) As for Hamilton being the best qualifier ever, that is just laughable. He's good, no doubt, but that honor goes to Senna or Clark. Hamilton has been driving a car with a 89% pole rate for 4 years. Can you say padded stats?

All in all, terrible post. See you in a few yours for your next one.

 

Hahaha It seems my work is done here then

I don't know how you find the time Pete.
Gute Nacht

 

I'm too lazy to do the math…

What percentage of races have been won by a Mercedes (either car,… not just Lewis) over the last 4 seasons (2014-17)?

What percentage of races were won by a Red Bull (either car,… not just Seb) during Vettel's 4 year run (2010-13)?

What percentage of races were won by a Ferrari (either car,… not just MS) during Ferrari's dominant run (2000-04)?

Curious to assess the relative dominance of the cars during each era.

 

Great post. Wish it wouldn't be a year before your next one!

 

Lol... Funny guy

 

I will not react in the topic of dominant cars but I do think he has a point with the last sentence.
And as I said earlier, I do believe that to maintain dominancy the driver does make a valuable contribution.

 

"I lurk around but something of value is rarely posted here so I didn’t feel compelled to join in."
Well, you just kept the tradition.....

 

And you would be correct. However, 2014 and up to 2017, Mercedes has made more of a valuable contribution.

 

I agree with the last sentence too.

 

I concur.

 

No doubt about it, you can have 10 drivers capable of winning the title with that Merc, but some will do it more easily and with more points than others.

 

NEarly spat out my coffee there! I've an expensive keyboard don't do that again

 

Always happy to brighten your day mate ..how's the weather around there? here is a bit crappy, finaly some rain...it as been crazy for this time of year with all this heat!

 

Sky blue but it's cold.

So **** sums it up

 

The stats:

Ferrari 2000: 10 race wins/17 races = 58,82%
Ferrari 2001: 9 race wins/17 races = 52,94%
Ferrari 2002: 15 race wins/17 races = 88,24%
Ferrari 2003: 8 race wins/16 races = 50,00%
Ferrari 2004: 15 race wins/18 races = 83,33%
Ferrari 2000-2004: 57 race wins/85 races = 67,06%

RBR 2010: 9 race wins/19 races = 47,37%
RBR 2011: 12 race wins/19 races = 63,16%
RBR 2012: 7 race wins/20 races = 35,00%
RBR 2013: 13 race wins/19 races = 68,42%
RBR 2010-2013: 41 race wins/77 races = 53,25%

Merc 2014: 16 race wins/19 races = 84,21%
Merc 2015: 16 race wins/19 races = 84,21%
Merc 2016: 19 race wins/21 races = 90,48%
Merc 2017 (up to and including Mexican GP): 11 race wins/18 races = 61,11%
Merc 2014-2017 (up to and including Mexican GP): 62 race wins/77 races = 80,52%

 

First off, I'm not "questioning" Hamilton's talent. He's good, probably top 15 ever, maybe even top 10. I think this thread is dumb but the Lewis hype has gone off the rails. His fanboys are frothing at the mouth.

Difference is, LH has had a WDC capable car for every year of his career except for 2. Far higher ratio than Schumacher or anyone in history. Which I find interesting as the British used to always talk down Schumacher because of his supposed "dominant car" yet you don't hear a peep out of them when Hamilton has had better equipment his whole career. I mean what rookie sits in a championship caliber ride? Too bad he had to choke so bad in 2007, would have been a good story. Personally I find what Alonso did with the whole team stacked against him against Hamilton who is obviously great to be very impressive.

Prove that the Ferrari had faster race pace most of the year. You can't. LOL at Ferrari's qualifying mode, it paled in comparison to Mercedes and then the FIA banned their oil burning anyway at Baku after James Allison from Mercedes ran and complained to the FIA. Also, you're seriously comparing qualifying times for cars from completely different eras that drove completely differently on completely different tires to suggest that LH has a 3 tenth natural pace advantage over Vettel? Woooooow, come on man.

Again comparing cars and drivers that are years apart. Also pre crash and post crash Massa (no comparison). There is no science behind this. These are not "facts," they are garbage.

Wrong. And Red Bull wasn't some front running car at the time anyway.

Lol, it's regarded as one of the greatest drives of the last 15 years and it put Vettel on the map. Take pole and then DOMINATE the race in a Toro Rosso. How did his teammate Bourdais do in the race? 18th. Vettel wins by 12 seconds. Just insane.

So enlighten me - how much better do you think Lewis is than Alonso, Ricci, or Max? Can you please whip out your "natural pace calculator" again? Maybe compare times now to when Alonso and LH were in go karts in the early 90s or something? Lol

 

Yeah, you are. And it is pathetic. You going back and forth with the other haters on here, where you respond to every friggin sentence written, is a joke. I understand why true fans get tired of this crap. It never freakin ends. You are like children.

Aside from analyzing stats, are you capable of just watching how a driver drives? Are you capable of seeing different lines taken around a course, how smooth and fluid a driver can be? How a driver conducts himself among traffic? You know, things that are not measured by numbers? Are you capable of having a discussion without bringing out your stats book to counter every word someone else says?

There's too many "know-it-alls" posting here, and it is tiring to even try to follow a thread. I used to post a lot in here when I first joined F-Chat, and just got so tired of all the crap. I peak back in here every once in a while, and it just never ends.

330P3 - I completely understand where you are coming from.

 

Hahaha post of the day... why on earth would Hamilton's fans be frothing, it's quite the contrary dear chap.

 

..Nobody thinks it's strange that for some 50 years fangio record of 5 championships was ubtouched, despite f.1 having some super talented figures in that period of time, and that in the last 15 years someone achieves 7 titles and 2 more make 4 titles each!
F.1 is getting easier and easier, more races, more reliability, greater domination from a single team over a long period of time, and above all the impossiblity for other teams to test and catch the leading teams are making present stats a total joke. At least in Michael's day, he still had the balls to leave the WcC team and work to make Ferrari a leading team, so his sucess was much to do with his hard work, but Seb or Elton were simply given a much faster car than everyone else. Statistics never meant a thing to me, but today they have become completly meaningless.

 

First off, relax Sally. I've said I think Hamilton is possibly a top 10 all time driver multiple times. Is that not good enough for Group 44? Contrary to Group 44's belief, I don't have to like Lewis Hamilton or think he is the best ever.

Secondly, stats book - WTF? 330P3 is the one going through the mental gymnastics to prove that Hamilton has some God given 3 tenths advantage over Vettel (LOL).

Sorry you'd rather cry than participate in the debate. This post is pathetic honestly.

 

Participate? LMAO! My eyes roll to the back of my head anytime I see one of the back and forths. I do apologize that my response was to you, but it really applies to just about all of the regulars posting in the F1 section. You know who you are - very easy to spot.......just scroll down any page in the F1 section, and look for the multiple quotes quoted, and the ever-lengthening posts that never seem to end.

Sally? Really? You're resorting to calling me a girl's name now? Does that make you feel like more of a man?

 

I'm so ****ing tired of being told ''oh but you don't rate him because you hate him''. Get it through your skull FFS, yes we may hate him, doesn't mean we don't RATE him. Big difference between the two

 

I don't even know what this response is supposed to mean. Can I get the English translation please?

Oh, and if you are "so ****ing tired ", lay down, take a nap - you'll feel better.